I'm kind of uspet that they didnt even attempt to address this at all in the patch... namely for heavy tanks. But this applies for almost call vehicle call ins...
Lets look at one example of the issue in sheer numbers...
ostheer :
tier 4 tech costs: 760 / 190 (battlephases 1-3, then buying t4 structure, you currently only need to buy this if you want a panther)
direct unit costs
panther: 490 / 175
elephant: 720 / 245
tiger: 720 / 200
The first panther costs 1250 / 365 after you add tech costs, making it i believe the most expensive tank in the game if you consider tech costs.
buying two?
cost for 2 panthers - 1740 / 540
cost for 2 elephants - 1440 / 490
cost for 2 tigers - 1440 / 400
People have quipped that call ins are popular because "theyre more cost effective", but cost effectiveness doesnt even come in to play. if you want cheap tanks buy heavy tanks. Does relic even realize that t4 medium tanks cost more than heavy tanks?
Theres just no real strategic reason to buy t4 medium tanks..
Resource requirements for tanks dont make sense
9 Sep 2014, 23:10 PM
#1
Posts: 365
9 Sep 2014, 23:17 PM
#2
1 
Posts: 147
'No strategic reason' except call-in tanks arrive after many CPs. Playing without heavy tier-based armour can result in losing map control if the enemy produces lots of medium armour. The reduced effectivenss of shrecks in this patch will make it more difficult to stall for Tigers. With this, plus the improved performance of Panthers and the re-work of Brummbars, I think there will be more of a strategic cause to build Ostheer T4. Soviet T4 is still in a pretty bad place.
10 Sep 2014, 07:16 AM
#3
8 Posts: 2470
not really, just build AT guns. especially in smaller games 2 AT guns with snares is very strong. and besides, the more you build early and the more you kill early the faster you get your callins.
10 Sep 2014, 07:21 AM
#4
Posts: 54
It's 245 fuel after battle phase 2 just to get a panther. If you want to stay in the game, it's probably going to behoove you to just get some mediums and PAKs out and wait for Tigger.
Course if yer in a commander that can't make big cats, then tier 4 is worth every ounce of fuel. Just why would you play those? (luftwaffe support/ostruppen hilarity aside)
Course if yer in a commander that can't make big cats, then tier 4 is worth every ounce of fuel. Just why would you play those? (luftwaffe support/ostruppen hilarity aside)
10 Sep 2014, 07:39 AM
#5
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
Your cost for tigers is wrong, they're 640/230 these days. And elefant 640/245. This makes the comparison even more hilarious.
10 Sep 2014, 07:46 AM
#6
Posts: 31
and you forgot that the panther combines the best properties a tank can have:
- very good speed
- good armor (very good front armor)
- dominating penetration
- dominating range
- good damage
- and maybe the emergency exit smoke ability
this makes this tank (my opinion) the best tank in game! you really have to suck to lose one of them due to another AT gun out of a Jackson. and the Jackson is like butter....
- very good speed
- good armor (very good front armor)
- dominating penetration
- dominating range
- good damage
- and maybe the emergency exit smoke ability
this makes this tank (my opinion) the best tank in game! you really have to suck to lose one of them due to another AT gun out of a Jackson. and the Jackson is like butter....
10 Sep 2014, 07:52 AM
#7
Posts: 70
Are we still persisting with this whole 'Panthers cost tech + the actual cost of the tank' thing? No one build Tigers in a vacuum. Sure, they won't tech to T4 most of the time but they aren't building Tigers straight out of T0 either. The same applies to E8s - most people will tech to Lt or Captain or both before calling in an E8.
10 Sep 2014, 08:00 AM
#8
Posts: 1042
and you forgot that the panther combines the best properties a tank can have:
- very good speed
- good armor (very good front armor)
- dominating penetration
- dominating range
- good damage
- and maybe the emergency exit smoke ability
this makes this tank (my opinion) the best tank in game! you really have to suck to lose one of them due to another AT gun out of a Jackson. and the Jackson is like butter....
Take it from a diehard soviet player, the order of fear factor for me when it comes to facing OH heavies is the Panther, and above it the Tiger and above that the Elefant.
The Panther is annoying but can be fought off by infantry and Soviet tanks have (or had, haven't played the patch yet... though I'm probably going to wait for the next patch given what I'm seeing) a decent chance against it. The Tiger is worse because it is murderous vs Infantry (IMO at times it get to ISU levels of lethality) and dangerous to tanks and has good armour. Elefant has the most factor because I know that at this point all my vehicles are effectively useless and if the German player has a clue then there will be no way for me to push forward and counter it as it will doubtless be supported, especially if I haven't picked a particular doctrine that has medium armour.
10 Sep 2014, 08:09 AM
#9
Posts: 365
Your cost for tigers is wrong, they're 640/230 these days. And elefant 640/245. This makes the comparison even more hilarious.
i know the elefant price is right because i have the elefant doctrine, i dont have the tiger doctrine so i got the number off some search result and i assumed it was up to date.
either way,at both price points, theyre really cheap, much cheaper than t4 medium tanks.
10 Sep 2014, 18:13 PM
#10
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Are we still persisting with this whole 'Panthers cost tech + the actual cost of the tank' thing? No one build Tigers in a vacuum. Sure, they won't tech to T4 most of the time but they aren't building Tigers straight out of T0 either. The same applies to E8s - most people will tech to Lt or Captain or both before calling in an E8.
Exactly.
@OP
That's why you have to take into account: BP2+BP3+T4
Just take out 200mp+45fuel from the equation.
Anyway, it's not like it would make them cost effective. Just making your point a bit more correct
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
10 Sep 2014, 18:53 PM
#11
Posts: 365
theres plenty of replays where people do indeed make heavy tanks "in a vacuum"....
even if it were the case that no one does that, then it shouldnt be much of a factor to require t4 teching to call in heavies.
even if it were the case that no one does that, then it shouldnt be much of a factor to require t4 teching to call in heavies.
10 Sep 2014, 18:55 PM
#12
Posts: 365
Exactly.
@OP
That's why you have to take into account: BP2+BP3+T4
Just take out 200mp+45fuel from the equation.
Anyway, it's not like it would make them cost effective. Just making your point a bit more correct
that could be fair to take off the cost of t1/t2 tech.
however even if you do that heavy tanks are still either the same price or cheaper... If you can buy a panther or a tiger for the same price, what would you buy. when would it ever make sense to buy the panther?
11 Sep 2014, 03:48 AM
#13
Posts: 236
I like the panther with Hulldown It's like an SU 85 with a rotating turret and way better armor + damage reduction.
But yeah the pricing system is kind of out of wack atm due to the new factions and relics attempt to delay armor call ins to leave more time for infantry fighting.
I mean you have to realize that every patch up until the release of western armies was only for Wehrmacht and Soviets. The prices were all increased prior to the western armies release to encourage more infantry play for a longer period.
With US forces and OKW it's different. The game plays relatively nicely when its wehr vs soviet.
But yeah the pricing system is kind of out of wack atm due to the new factions and relics attempt to delay armor call ins to leave more time for infantry fighting.
I mean you have to realize that every patch up until the release of western armies was only for Wehrmacht and Soviets. The prices were all increased prior to the western armies release to encourage more infantry play for a longer period.
With US forces and OKW it's different. The game plays relatively nicely when its wehr vs soviet.
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