Wy the Axis are the better choise in 2gg2

I am not saying the KT has no utility; far from it. At its pricetag and given the tech requirements it should. But in my experience most people greatly exaggerate its strength. Bang for the buck wise it is fairly mediocre if you ask me, certainly behind other heavy tanks such as the Tiger/IS2 and especially the ISU. Not to mention that we are firmly in the realm of theorycrafting here anyways since a straight tech for KT in 1v1 or 2v2 usually amounts to outright suicide as any competent opponent will see whats coming (or rather not coming) and just swamp you with medium armor.

the thing is that it is deadly and resilient enough to say a while in a fight if well managed, and consistently kill infantry and damage tanks, giving it vet somewhat fast, though this is a problem with all axis-soviet tanks.

You also have to consider that KT don't bleed, atguns do, and su85 are clumsy as hell.

I genuinely think most of the time the tiger and kt significantly outperform IS2. I'm not sure about the stats but i've consistently been forced to retreat my IS2 after a few shot exchanges with kt or tigers, with my IS2 penetrating way less often than kt.

Because KT faces inferior At weapons and has great durability and damage, he can, if well managed, make incursions and bleed a significant amount of mp or outright kill an atun before retreating.

it ain't slow as fuck, sure it's slower than most tanks but it's hardly a snail, and get an ability to go faster with vet. Or rather there isn't that much of a speed disparity between allied and axis tanks, despite the fact that allies are supposed to be more mobile? KT has great armor and a great gun, i've seen in one shot a full health cons squad, and regularly waste 5 men with one shot, finishing the last with the mgs as it retreats.

the turret rotation is also hardly that slow. unless your t34 have vet 3 they're hardly guaranteed to be able to circle strafe it, plus doesn't it get additionnal turret rotation speed with vet ?
That's also forgetting the support KT will have. and unlike soviet AT, it won't have any trouble penetrating vehicles that have less hp

neither SU85 nor soviet atguns will reliably penetrate the KT, heck the su85 regularly fails to pen panthers.
That's also forgetting the problem of dealing with OKW infantry without T3

t34/85 and E8 are doctrinal, it's much harder with regular t34 and su85 and atguns.

wat


and yes, it IS slow as hell.

wat


and yes, it IS slow as hell.

unless there was some bugs, in my experience, it's enough if you don't ram it 1 meter away from t34. I've attempted circle strafes fairly close and the turret managed to keep up and land 1-2 shots. + KT will be accompanied with shreck volks and raketen, so t34 won't be circle strafing very long.

And also, no, it is fast enough to get out of trouble , be it atguns arc of fire or an arty strike. And don't forget spearhead or whatever it's called.

Sure if it's caught alone with its pants down it is unlikely to escape, but that goes for any tank.

btw i have seen my own KT losing to IS so i think they are pretty much on par but of course its rng dependent.

(max range, frontal armor)
Time to kill IS2 by KT:59 seconds
Time to kill KT by IS2: 120 seconds

KT is in fact more or less equivalent to 1.5 IS2s. While only requiring 2 more popcap than an IS2.

@Kam: 1 on 1, IS2 actually defeats the Tiger pretty reliably. It has significantly stronger armor and slightly better penetration going for it, while the Tiger has a slightly faster reload. The IS2 is also faster. As always, RNG can eff you over, but on average, the IS 2 will come out ahead comfortably enough.

@Kam: 1 on 1, IS2 actually defeats the Tiger pretty reliably. It has significantly stronger armor and slightly better penetration going for it, while the Tiger has a slightly faster reload. The IS2 is also faster. As always, RNG can eff you over, but on average, the IS 2 will come out ahead comfortably enough.

the probleme is you cant compare IS2 and Tiger 1 vs 1. Tiger has the better AT support + its better against infantery and less armored vehicles because of the ROF.
IS2 is a good Tank but its not better than a Tiger.

unless there was some bugs, in my experience, it's enough if you don't ram it 1 meter away from t34. I've attempted circle strafes fairly close and the turret managed to keep up and land 1-2 shots. + KT will be accompanied with shreck volks and raketen, so t34 won't be circle strafing very long.

And also, no, it is fast enough to get out of trouble , be it atguns arc of fire or an arty strike. And don't forget spearhead or whatever it's called.

Sure if it's caught alone with its pants down it is unlikely to escape, but that goes for any tank.

I've noticed the same thing while circle strafing the KT. The turret keeps up with the T34. Which makes the slow turret point moot, because no Soviet tank can flank it without probably dying in the process.

T3s do move faster than the KT turret rotation, also for those arguing that it is covered by AT guns and you can't circle; that is the point of combined arms. Counter their AT guns with mortars and infantry, you have combined arms as well, use them!

Yes it seems like Axis are more favored in teamgames 3v3 and up. A lot of people have said already why in past topics. Mostly it comes down to:

1. More resources=more fuel for Axis
2. Axis have stronger late game tanks and veterancy
3. Team games generally go to late game (favors Axis)
4. 3v3 and 4v4 maps are campy and favor defensive playstyle which also favor Axis

the problem with the kt, is that in long 3v3 or 4v4 game with okw players. Its Going to come out.

Bare in mind allies have to fight multiple kt's more likely than not at least 1 JK. and multiple tigers. Believe or not a saw a JT and and elephant today in one 4v4 game.

Ok, heavies and super-heavies wouldn't be the problem alone. couple this with the fact that OKW volks get shreks that consistently penetrate and deal damage.

Not only that. axis will camp, build pak 40's. and gradually move up there pak wall.

flanking becomes impossible. I cant tell you haw many time ive lost a jackson getting one-shottted from a JT,or elephant.

Allied infantry melts to okw vetted units. (shreks give volks supervet).

My main problem with allies is that you are fighting to clock. win in 20min or simply lose. (most of the time)

This is bad game design imo. with allies you have to be very aggressive to win. usually winning in 12-20min leaving the victory unsatisfying. But when you lose its because even though you were very successful in the first 10-20min. Axis are able to camp effectively and save up for their heavy tanks and elite infantry. Leaving losses VERY frustrating.

When i play axis. the only thing that seems to frustrate me is the ISU and good katy strikes.

flanking becomes impossible. I cant tell you haw many time ive lost a jackson getting one-shottted from a JT,or elephant.

i could tell you how many times its happened. 0. because you know what else is impossible? 1 shotting a jackson with a jt or ele

T3s do move faster than the KT turret rotation, also for those arguing that it is covered by AT guns and you can't circle; that is the point of combined arms. Counter their AT guns with mortars and infantry, you have combined arms as well, use them!

see i'm not too sure about that, sometimes i've been able to do it, if the 34 is vetted, but on other occasions the turrets keep up with the t34. Maybe it's an effect of KT vet ? or there is something wrong slowing down t34 or speeding the turret.

As for countering their atguns the way you said, the problem is that okw infantry tend to be superior to soviet infantry, has shrecks, etc, so even with only 2 volks, the circle strafing is far from a guaranteed success. And you're unlikely to decrew raketen before it gets 1 shot off.

i could tell you how many times its happened. 0. because you know what else is impossible? 1 shotting a jackson with a jt or ele

many of may tanks get damaged.

Play soviet,use sniperspam or maximspam into shocks and isu-freewin OKW.Soviets strongest faction in 2 vs 2.OKW above that.1vs 1 its americans,or second position soviets.

the probleme is you cant compare IS2 and Tiger 1 vs 1. Tiger has the better AT support + its better against infantery and less armored vehicles because of the ROF.
IS2 is a good Tank but its not better than a Tiger.

IS2 has insane armor,regularly deflects paks and tiger and almost always deflects panzer 4.Only pak at close-mid range can provide this AT support u talking about.Everywhere they fuck ostheer,tiger is one tank they haveit has left..and even that can't stand up to is2 head on.

This lategame axis armor supriority applies strictly to OKW only.
In terms of armor power lategame its -

OKW
SOVIET
OSTHEER
USF

Soviets are far more flexible in their armor choices with t-34/85,broken isu,m4c sherman backed su-85s and this aegis armor is2.And no ost tank can beat is2,it defeats tiger comfortably.

Play soviet,use sniperspam or maximspam into shocks and isu-freewin OKW.Soviets strongest faction in 2 vs 2.OKW above that.1vs 1 its americans,or second position soviets.

No one wants to cheesse to win and stop with does stupid advices like spam rifles and take M1919 or spam snipers and maxims free win. No one wants to play bloby, spamy and chesse games just to win.

And no one talks about that maps has a huge relevance for who faction combo wombo has an edge.

Well today i had some guy raging on me for blowing his all 5 Field HQs up?

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  VS

  byrnted <iB@> "CE;>A0;5= velkyne

  PUN!$H3R Sabra PEpwnzya|ORAB

  3v3 - OKW vs Field HQ and blob

  by: sabra map: Angermuende

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I bet his posting now on famous 11 page thread about Stuka on offical forums ;P

Oh ye its 3v3,but w/e.

Conclusion? Blobs doesnt win a game.

Tell me where those dirty Germans touched you.

For me it seems like the german factions are a bit more easy to micro and a bit more "passive" way of playing, that are attractive for the casual gamers. This is probably why the queues are favouring the axis, as it is more rewarding for playing the axis.

I'll try to describe my personal opinion on this.

In 1v1, Sovjet vs Wehr is probably the most balanced match-up, as these two factions has units that matches/counters each other. Tho, I would say that the Wehr requires a little less micro as playing passive with mgs and pak's, may be forgiving and rewarding against mediocre sovjet tactics. One can debate that the German armour is a bit stronger than Sovjet one, but in my opinion it is all just RNG gods trolling around having some laughs. Pz IV bouncing shots on T-34/Su 85s rear and side armour and vice-versa. ISU vs Ferdi/ Tiger vs IS-2 are all in all quite close in performance, tho the Ferdi can be a tough nut to crack, as the sovjets can't out range it.

OKW and US are a whole different story, these two factions in 1v1's are just laughable. My experience so far is that the OKW player can rape the US player hard in the early game, with a well placed kübel/sturm rush, tho the US player can counter it with two riflesquads + echos, but you will probably lose one squad to bait the sturm pios. Mid game, well if the US players gets up early AAA truck or a Stuart they can pretty much dominate and win, vice versa with an early Jagdpanzer + Volks (w/shreks).

If the late arrives the US simply can't hold its own ground, as the rifleman are highly out-gunned by Obers/fallschermjägers, even with the expensive BARs, they won't keep their ground as the main infantry. Where is the elite US infantry (non commander)? Jacksons and Shermans are also quite weird, with the horrible pathing, it is hard to use the speed and manouverability, as they get stuck and to yolo 180s when you try to reverse out of danger. The early german mortars and mgs (wehr) will also cause massive problems for an US player, since in the early game, 1/2 well placed MG's + Grens/1 x Mortar will simply wreck your rifleman. Flanking the MG's are probably the l2play problem, as most germans with a brain will cover/place their mgs in good positions where you can't reach them.

TL: DR - 1v1

Germans requires less overall micro
Sovjets/US requires more micro for a powerful build.
US Forces in general lacks vital infantry, mortar abilities/late game units as Pershings/Jumbo's.

2v2 - Where to begin

2 x Sovjet vs 2 x Wehr

Balanced as 1v1 situation, described above, sovjet tactics is a bit more challenging, but more rewarding when you make them work. Germans can allow themselves to play a bit more passive, and rely on early armour/pak+mgs to breaktrough the sovjet lines. Atleast this is my experience.

1 x US+ 1 x Sovjet vs 1 x Wehr + 1 x Okw

This is where the real balance problems lies in my opinion. The current "weak" US factions makes them a burden for the Sovjet player if the game drags out past 20mins, as German heavy armour have an wide edge over the current US late game units in-game. The Priest can be lethal as ****, but it won't cut it against swarms of Tiger II's, Panthers etc. As the US is currenlty decent/excelling at early/early mid game, this forces the allies to be switch up the pace and swarm the german positions before heavy armour/ or an Ost-wind appears.

The skills for managing these types of aggressive flanking/swarming, without getting pinned and forced to retreat by well placed mgs/bunkers/wages are probably, requires some brain beyond the screen, and as in most online games this doesn't exist amongst the wide spread of random players you meat as an allied players. Most of the players are "hurr durr" lets walk straight into an MG-42 and whine about bad teamm8s and not helping your teamm8 when he is getting double teamed, while the single MG-42 is wrecking all your bad headon infantry attacks on an MG.
Tho I rarely play with randoms this is mostly what happens when I venture into the 2v2 mode without a friend on ts3.

Current build (commander/strategy/tactics) needed to successfully bringing down a well coordinated Axis opponent, is quite hard as the imbalance between OKW vs Sovjet/US is quite significant. The classic Sturm + Wagen rush is ingenious tactic that pays off in the long run as it is fairly simple to pull off, and it is unpredictable where the wagen will hide, or where the sturm pios will pop up and annihilate your infantry if your silly enough to venture into close/medium fights with them. You can as sovjets make hell for the OKW if you poke out 2 x Snipers with clown cars and mow them down and get up guards to counter the light armour the OKW player sends on you, however any wise Wehr player would support their teammate if the sovjets steamrolls the OKW player with Maxim spam or Sniper/Car tactics. Late game units as the Jagdtiger is just wtf, this thing shoots through buildings, heavy forrests and it simply doesn't care about well concealed allied armour. It also out-ranges all allied AT/Tanks by a wide margin and has a relative good damage output, as you would exspect from this expensive as **** TD. The current tank pathing doesn't help with flanking heavy armour as these tank drivers are drunk on vodka and whiskey 24/7 after the last patch.

TL: DR:

- Imbalanced nations; OKW (Over-performing), US (Underperforming)
- Allied factions requires a lot more micro/unit preservation, than it counter part
- US main infantry is weak vs Volks/sturms.
- US lacks early mobile AT (Shreks are superior, costs less than M1s)
- Late game units heavily biased towards OKW, no real counter to a Jagdtiger (not a huge problem, but frustrating)
- Fallschermjägers ability to walk out of buildings behind enemy lines vs US paratroops has to jump lel

the list goes on :/


My experince from 3v3 or 4v4 are that there currently is no balance, the one team which can spam and blob the most will win. I just play them for a laugh when im not trying to play serious


This is my personal opinion on why the Axis are a better choice to play in CoH2 (2v2,3v3,4v4), Im not a native english speaker, so sorry for any grammar fails.