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Ostruppen

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Napalm
2 Sep 2014, 00:23 AM
#1
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

Internet strangers,

I bring to you an issue that is far more important than Soviet core faction design and balance. Ostruppen. Ostruppen need some adjustments. I believe they are worse than Partisans and that is saying something.

Who
The Osttruppen Doctrine - uses 0 CP Osttruppen call in at 200 MP.
Mobile Defense Doctrine - uses 3 PC Osttruppen call in at 425 MP. Two units with the RNG chance of LMG42 or vet.

What
They use the KAR 98 weapons profile.

Why
Generally speaking, they suck so hard that a model may trip and die on their way to the battle field. I propose a three part adjustment.
  • They cost too much. The price should be adjusted to 180 MP for The Osttruppen Doctrine and 400 MP for the Mobile Defense Doctrine.
  • The CP call in for the Mobile Defense Doctrine needs to be lowered from 3 to 2.
  • The movement accuracy needs to be adjusted to match other front line infantry.


The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.


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Lucas Troy
2 Sep 2014, 01:11 AM
#2
avatar of Lucas Troy

Posts: 508

For the Mobile Defense Ost, I think part of the problem is the RNG setup.

It's fine that it has RNG since RNG is part of the game. But like the soviet allied fuel drop, the range is just too big. Basically if you don't get the LMG42 it's a gigantic waste of manpower. There shouldn't be so much RNG on call-in that you get completely screwed in the worst case. Bell curving it a bit would help.

Buffing Ostruppen in general would also fix the above problem, of course, since paying about 210 MP per squad wouldn't feel like getting kicked in the genitals if they didn't get the LMG42.


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Kallipolan
2 Sep 2014, 01:14 AM
#3
avatar of Kallipolan

Posts: 196

I agree with the cost decrease, though I'm not so sure about the accuracy boost (them sucking is kind of the point, after all). Instead, I'd like to see them gain a bit more utility in the form of a grenade (something like the Volksgrenadier Model 24), and perhaps the ability to repair vehicles. I'd also like for the Infanterie Kompanie requirement on Panzerfausts to be removed. One of the few advantages of the Ostruppen Doctrine is that you can theoretically skip T1, but the need to unlock Panzerfausts kind of forces you to build it, begging the question of why you wouldn't simply build Grens since they are only 40 mp more.

I also think the Mobile Defence call-in is a bit too RNG. As far as I can tell, it is currently possible to get 2 Vet 3 squads with LMGs (almost happened to me once), or 2 Vet 0 squads with only Kars. That's a big variation in combat ability.
Playercard of Kallie

1v1: P2v2: P3v3: None4v4: None
1v1: P2v2: None3v3: None4v4: None
1v1: P2v2: None3v3: None4v4: None
1v1: P2v2: None3v3: None4v4: None


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Strummingbird
2 Sep 2014, 04:55 AM
#4
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Posts: 952 | Subs: 1

What the Mobile Defense call-in needs is some standardization... say 500MP for two squads, for example which would always give-
1X Vet 3 and 1X LMG osttruppen
-instead of a dice roll. Currently you could quite possibly end up with 300MP worth of infantry if you get 2 non vet osttruppen without weapons, or 700+MP worth if you roll two LMG Osttruppen with triple vet... which is quite a huge difference.
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Mr. Someguy
2 Sep 2014, 05:41 AM
#5
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Yeah the Osstruppen are the largest gamble of all the "random" call-ins, followed by Panzer IV's (Vet 0 to Vet 2 with varying levels of experience in between) and then Vet Riflemen (Same as PIV but their Vet 1 is way more useful).
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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Arclyte
2 Sep 2014, 12:07 PM
#6
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

Ostruppen should be buffed alongside conscripts.

They should be the numerous-but-mediocre generalist infantry unit like conscripts. The accuracy boost sounds neat on paper, but in practice it's gimmicky and makes an underpowered unit more of a hassle than it's worth.

Give them a dps buff, and give them a weapon upgrade that synergizes a bit with grens. I know early in the war germans used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_1918_T-Gewehr (A german version of the PTRS), or maybe give them an MP40 upgrade
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Sarantini
2 Sep 2014, 12:14 PM
#7
avatar of Sarantini
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Posts: 2181

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2014, 12:07 PMArclyte
Ostruppen should be buffed alongside conscripts.

They should be the numerous-but-mediocre generalist infantry unit like conscripts. The accuracy boost sounds neat on paper, but in practice it's gimmicky and makes an underpowered unit more of a hassle than it's worth.

Give them a dps buff, and give them a weapon upgrade that synergizes a bit with grens. I know early in the war germans used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_1918_T-Gewehr (A german version of the PTRS), or maybe give them an MP40 upgrade

In the tow and campaign Germans have the panzerbusche 39 which function the same as the ptrs
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steel
2 Sep 2014, 12:15 PM
#8
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2014, 12:07 PMArclyte
Ostruppen should be buffed alongside conscripts.

They should be the numerous-but-mediocre generalist infantry unit like conscripts. The accuracy boost sounds neat on paper, but in practice it's gimmicky and makes an underpowered unit more of a hassle than it's worth.

Give them a dps buff, and give them a weapon upgrade that synergizes a bit with grens. I know early in the war germans used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_1918_T-Gewehr (A german version of the PTRS), or maybe give them an MP40 upgrade
This. +1
MP40 upgrade package should be good but how much would it cost to arm them? Arm 3/6 of them?
_____________________________________________________________________________
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Napalm
2 Sep 2014, 15:42 PM
#9
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

Could be the same as a PPSH Conscript upgrade. 40 Munitions if I recall correctly for 3/6 models.

The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.


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Lucas Troy
2 Sep 2014, 19:26 PM
#10
avatar of Lucas Troy

Posts: 508

I like the idea, but has Relic ever added an upgrade to a unit? It seems like something that just will never happen.



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VonIvan
2 Sep 2014, 19:46 PM
#11
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

Ostruppen are like the equivalent of Irregulars right now. They both need some sort of way to be more effective atm. I think both need a slight dps increase.
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NinjaWJ
2 Sep 2014, 19:53 PM
#12
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

What are ostruppen
jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2015, 15:19 PMAlexzandvar
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
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axel410
2 Sep 2014, 19:57 PM
#13
avatar of axel410

Posts: 22

The ostruppen commander is available for everyone this week:



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darkfireslide
2 Sep 2014, 23:12 PM
#14
avatar of darkfireslide

Posts: 25

Ostruppen are, like the majority of Wehrmacht and Soviet units, in dire need of attention and reworking. Unfortunately, Relic is content to just create a campaign instead of fixing the replayable part of the game. Ugh.
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Warthrone
3 Sep 2014, 01:50 AM
#15
avatar of Warthrone

Posts: 205

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2014, 19:53 PMNinjaWJ
What are ostruppen


A useless unit.
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The_Courier
3 Sep 2014, 02:03 AM
#16
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665

I think they should be reworked a bit. Increase cost to 210-220 (so they're still the cheapest combat infantry in the game) and give them icreased accuracy, and perhaps a cheap MP40 upgrade. I liked the MP40s that Volksgrenadiers had in CoH1, since it researched instantly and allowed you to pull a nasty surprise. Ostheer players could possibly use that to counter a conscript or riflemen charge, as well as guard MG42s.

Other than that, ability to repair or build some defenses could maybe give them utility.
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NinjaWJ
3 Sep 2014, 02:12 AM
#17
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2014, 01:50 AMWarthrone


A useless unit.


What are they really though? The doctrine description makes it seems like they could be other Axis troops such as Hungarians, Italians, Romanians, etc
jump backJump back to quoted post31 Mar 2015, 15:19 PMAlexzandvar
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
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elchino7
3 Sep 2014, 02:45 AM
#18
avatar of elchino7
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Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Make them cheaper ? The few times i try to use them with Mobile Defense, they are just meatshields for PGs, LMG grens or MG42s.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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van Voort
3 Sep 2014, 03:43 AM
#19
avatar of van Voort
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Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2014, 02:12 AMNinjaWJ


What are they really though? The doctrine description makes it seems like they could be other Axis troops such as Hungarians, Italians, Romanians, etc


Minor Allies such as the above


Volksdeutch (ethnic Germans from outside Germany)


Various anti-communist/nationalist forces raised from the Soviet Union with a variety of motivations and purposes


Very few of those units are interested in dying for a Greater Germany
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins

PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
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van Voort
3 Sep 2014, 03:44 AM
#20
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Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Sep 2014, 02:45 AMelchino7
Make them cheaper ? The few times i try to use them with Mobile Defense, they are just meatshields for PGs, LMG grens or MG42s.


They were what, 120 when they came out?

They've been buffed since then though
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins

PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
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