Soviet Snipers Squad are not fun

Until then, Learn to play....

Please, don't feed the troll.
Let him alone until a mod remembers to ban him.

given that the ostheer have better tanks, why shouldnt the soviets have better infantry?

Better tanks cost much more resources. But better infantry dont cost more resources, and that's the key problem.

look at the replay. OKW had 5 volksgren with shreks. that was his whole army until 25 minutes in.

soviets could have brought infantry at pure random and it would have still been atleast an ok counter.

there wasnt even any major moves on the snipers in the whole replay. theres nothing to even analyze and say "oh here the sniper should have died but he got away" it was just "ok im sending in volksgren with rockets... and now theyre getting sniped"

IMO the biggest issue with the unit is the get out of jail free card. The sprint ability is a joke, and allows for the soviet player to get away with shitty micro and get out of bad situations. IMO the reinforcement cost of the sniper squad needs to be upped, so if you do manage to kill one member of the team you really feel it.

+1

I would like to see sprint replaced with something else. I would also advocate a hp decrease or a reinforcement cost increase.

Mirroring the snipers of both factions is a terrible idea, we've been there in vCoH, all it delivers is more dull gameplay.

No, and No,Sir. The Coh1 dull sniper game was dull for alltime cloak, and THE Biggest RNG factor in the whole Coh series, from 50% succes rate at counter snipe, while the enemy targeted sniper immediatly start moving after his shoot. The balance was Perfect between two snipers, the game system was silly. Now the sniper game system better imo with NO all time cloak, and no 50% rec. accuracy modifier on the move, but the balance vs two member and one member sniper type, is ZERO.

No, and No,Sir. The Coh1 dull sniper game was dull for alltime cloak, and THE Biggest RNG factor in the whole Coh series, from 50% succes rate at counter snipe, while the enemy targeted sniper immediatly start moving after his shoot. The balance was Perfect between two snipers, the game system was silly. Now the sniper game system better imo with NO all time cloak, and no 50% rec. accuracy modifier on the move, but the balance vs two member and one member sniper type, is ZERO.

While these aspects may have added to the annoying sniper gameplay, I don't see them as the main factor.

In my opinion vCoH sniper design was retarded because you pretty much had to build a sniper to counter the sniper. I don't know why people think that the two snipers must be able to hardcounter eachother, I'd rather see the game offering different viable counters to deal with them.

+1

I would like to see sprint replaced with something else. I would also advocate a hp decrease or a reinforcement cost increase.

Mirroring the snipers of both factions is a terrible idea, we've been there in vCoH, all it delivers is more dull gameplay.

Nearly all infantry have 80hp

Last I checked, sov sniper members have 40hp each

should be down to 20 or 16 so 1 bullet kills each? They already die pretty damned fast if you catch them.

Its OKW more than wehr that needs help vs sniper.Cut sprint,make incendiary round vet 0 is enough fix for wehr-soviet balance.

While these aspects may have added to the annoying sniper gameplay, I don't see them as the main factor.

In my opinion vCoH sniper design was retarded because you pretty much had to build a sniper to counter the sniper. I don't know why people think that the two snipers must be able to hardcounter eachother, I'd rather see the game offering different viable counters to deal with them.

But the sad thing, in coh1 and coh2 too, THE ONLY RELIABLE counter vs the well used, protected sniper, is the countersnipe, this is fact... I play a lots of game, where i abuse the shit out of the enemy team with my own SU sniper teams, especially in 2v2 games, you dont belive this... The 1v1 is problematic too, after the first 5-6min, where you can be pushed-punished if you got a nice flank, or a Scout car rush, and you dont prepare for this well, but after 2 Cp, guards, mines, and or AT naded roaming conscripts can save the day for your snipers, who has sprint in vet1, 50 shoot range and all shoot 100% kill, you can win easy with 2-3 sniper team in the mid game, cause so heavy man power bleed vs 4 member squads with expensive reinforce cost, sniper team is a game changer unit now, with NO FEAR for a counter snipe, vs OKW is not exist, vs Ost the not brain dead OST player try AVOID your 2 member sniper teams with his lone sniper, not try make a countersnipe... OST sniper CANT countersnipe properly the SU team, only can cause a minimal 90mp mp bleed for you, under the risk, he get a counter-countersnipe, for your countersniped sniper, and he wasted his 360 mp unit, for a cheap 90mp. Not good trade, i think, we can accept this, yes?

Sprint shenanigans aside, Soviet sniper is priced wrong.

Sure it is worse than the German one stat-wise, but so are individual conscripts compared to individual grenadiers. This is reflected in the price, you get 1.5 conscripts for each grenadier, 1.5 Soviet crew members for each German crew member.

Snipers do not follow that rule. 2 Sov sniper team members cost as much as 1 German.

Imagine if Maxim cost 240 and had 8 squad members but kept its stats. This is the situation we have now.

Some simple arithmetic gives us that SU sniper should cost 480 manpower.

Too much? Fallschirms cost 440. I'd rather get a Soviet sniper squad than a Fallschirm squad.

If it cost 480 it could keep sprint, flares and fire faster for all I care. It would deserve it all and spamming it would be much less prevalent.

For me, the problem not the Su sniper team price, but the invulnerable vs counter snipe vs Ostheer matchup, and the NON EXISTING OKW countersnipe vs SU sniper team. This SU sniper team would be good, IF the enemy player have the tools, the RELIABLE tools, what he can fight vs SU snipers on the mid game. Sorry, but the desperated flank attack attemps after early game, with Pumas/Luchs as OKW, Scout car as Osther vs the SU defense, with mines, AT naded conscripts with/or button capable Guards, and some AT guns/and or T34/SU 85, is not that type reliable counter what i want for the balanced gameplay. The best chance after this, nothing more, than bombard artillery-mortar, but this is NOT the reliable way again, you hardly dependant for the RNG god. IF you try OST sniper, you are AGAIN in big RISK, with big chance, you will be loose your 360mp sniper unit, if you cant use the vet1 45 muni ability, because the SU sniper team 2. member, countersniped your sniper, right after you sniped first his first member. You loose 360mp, He loose 90. Thx, for me, this is AGAIN not a reliable counter now...

BTW. on the US vs PE matchup, in Coh1, at least have the PE a AT HT unit, who can shoot at vET0 his counter snipe ability for muni, now, the OKW has NOTHING, really nothing, just in direct fire, and light vehicles, this is not fun...

I know Relic has an "asymmetrical" hard on - but the only way snipers can work is if there's BALANCE.

Right now there's just no balance for the Soviet sniper.

They need to make the Wehrmacht and Soviet snipers exactly even so there's counter sniping etc (and not the current vet required, muni required, RNG required Wehrmacht counter snipe).

You do realize that this argument have lost any kind of validity with introduction of 2 armies with no snipers at all?

How do you want to balance that?

If you have hard time using ger sniper against sov T1(because you for some reason thought it might be a good idea), then do it against the faction that doesn't have any means at all to counter a sniper, the USF.

Not all units are effective against all opponents BOs.

Snipers are different and wil stay different. Stop using german one as grenadier replacement and don't go YOLO with him, use him against USF or sov T2 and score 40-50 kills easily.

You do realize that this argument have lost any kind of validity with introduction of 2 armies with no snipers at all?

How do you want to balance that?

If you have hard time using ger sniper against sov T1(because you for some reason thought it might be a good idea), then do it against the faction that doesn't have any means at all to counter a sniper, the USF.

Not all units are effective against all opponents BOs.

Snipers are different and wil stay different. Stop using german one as grenadier replacement and don't go YOLO with him, use him against USF or sov T2 and score 40-50 kills easily.

Katitof, the problem is the rus sniper team, and no, this is not assymetrical balance, if a sniper team have 2 member, this is pure overpowered imbalanded unit without his ridicolous sprint ability too... I know, you are a fanboy a little? bit, but the fact is fact, 2 member sniper is not good for the game, at all.

The USF without sniper, is a another story vs Ostheer, i feel bad this matchup too, but at least Ger sniper only 48hp, and not 2x48, you have twice better chance shoot down with a good flank, or frontal lmg - bar blob assault, and ostheer dont have button ablility, like russian, for counter the sniper hunter light vehicles, as M20... The snipers need his reliable counter, and i dont see other solution, only the counter snipe ability. Remember, the Coh1 was too both Opposing fronts faction his own dedicated counter snipe ability, Pe has AT HT focused fire, and Brits recon team snipe shoot. That was not the best, but at least, provide some soft counter. Now, in Coh2, i feel the one of the biggest problem, the not balanced sniper meta.

I find Okw puma vet 1 ability is not enough vs Rus sniper too, while this thing coming only with vet1, and just kill one member most of time, cause only 90mp loss for enemy Rus player, for 45 muni, not guaranteed squad kill, this is not enough. But the problem is again, not with this ability, but with the 2 member SU sniper team, if the SU sniper team would be only 1 lone model, this can be a correct solution in OKW vs SU matchup, or leave the SU sniper team with 2 models, but the Puma ability vs only snipers need vet0 ability, and alltime kill both two moddels, same with Osther Sniper need his incendiary round vet0, and alltime 100% kill the whole enemy Sniper squad. That would be balanced.

Snipers are different and wil stay different. Stop using german one as grenadier replacement and don't go YOLO with him, use him against USF or sov T2 and score 40-50 kills easily.

Yep. The issue isn't how the Soviet sniper compares to the German one or fares against him (although it is worth debating their relative efficiencies). The issue is that it is virtually impossible to play a 2v2 game versus Soviets without having 3-4 sniper squads shoved in your face, followed by Guards, followed by callins.

Katitof, the problem is the rus sniper team, and no, this is not assymetrical balance, if a sniper team have 2 member, this is pure overpowered imbalanded unit without his ridicolous sprint ability too... I know, you are a fanboy a little? bit, but the fact is fact, 2 member sniper is not good for the game, at all.

The USF without sniper, is a another story vs Ostheer, i feel bad this matchup too, but at least Ger sniper only 48hp, and not 2x48, you have twice better chance shoot down with a good flank, or frontal lmg - bar blob assault, and ostheer dont have button ablility, like russian, for counter the sniper hunter light vehicles, as M20... The snipers need his reliable counter, and i dont see other solution, only the counter snipe ability. Remember, the Coh1 was too both Opposing fronts faction his own dedicated counter snipe ability, Pe has AT HT focused fire, and Brits recon team snipe shoot. That was not the best, but at least, provide some soft counter. Now, in Coh2, i feel the one of the biggest problem, the not balanced sniper meta.

I know this, but this is a change of a level of making ZiS-3 and PaK40 or P4 and T34 completely equal.

One that will simply not happen.

Countersniping was obviously never intended to be part of the game as it was back in coh1(and despite all the prising it got, it still was a horrible thing to do as still, player with more snipers won).

You've completely ignored that I've said there are 2 new factions that are helpless equally against snipers and yet they somehow do it(actually, OKW can do pretty well with JLI or falls jumping out of buildings). Don't ask for countersniping being possible, because if it wasn't changed after 18 months, then it will not get changed. Don't use sniper against sniper, that is all.

And you definitely have pink glasses of nostalgia on right now. PE ATHT was as much counter to a sniper as AT nades were a counter to pershing-it simply didn't worked unless you were fighting player who was more braindead then AI, on top of this PE had just 3 men squads of extremely high reinforce, snipers were complete bane of them and still nothing was done to change it.

Same for reckon section, their marksmen ability was NOT a sniper counter, unless you were fighting a potato.

You simply had to be utter idiot to loose sniper to ATHT or reckon section.

Back in coh1 only vanila factions could reliably counter snipers, new factions were helpless, nothing really changed here.

Snipers never will be balanced, but they are not going anywhere so you might stop complaining.
Relic have addressed many many times that they will NOT balance snipers using their survivability, but using their firepower, so ger sniper survival and sov sniper survival will stay exasctly where they are. One is slightly more durable and can't be countersniped(why slightly? check DPS of allies and axis infantry to know why) and other shoots twice as fast.

I have a good solution I think.
Make the spotter a real spotter, meaning when the sniper loses one unit, he becomes only a spotter with a rifle just like cons have.
It keeps his ability to launch flaires and spot, but cant snipe.
In that way, its not a 2 snipersquad but a squad of a sniper and a spotter. RNG decides which one dies.
If the spotter dies, the sniper has little LOS and is more vulnerable.

Yeah, Ostheer sniper really have higher dps with his 1.4x rate of fire, but this is not trade for HIS lesser survivality, this is trade for the FACT, he need fight vs 5-6 membered generally cheap rfc squad, aka Conscript, Penals, ST etc. The RUS sniper have a bit lower rate of fire, but he can bleed with every shoot at least 30mp, but use against a Ober 50mp, a fallshirm 47, a Pg 42, and his enemy targeted squads are 4 member, not 6... So why NEED the DOUBLE hp and the UNVULNERABILITY vs the countersnipe for the RUS sniper team? I dont see... If the fact, relic dont do anything the last 18 month, is not prove for me, they do his job at best, in every month we get a balance patch almost, TIME to do with current sniper meta some change it is right now...

USF vs Osther, i see problematic too, im not a fanboy, but i see not so big problem, than SU sniper team...

I have a good solution I think.
Make the spotter a real spotter, meaning when the sniper loses one unit, he becomes only a spotter with a rifle just like cons have.
It keeps his ability to launch flaires and spot, but cant snipe.
In that way, its not a 2 snipersquad but a squad of a sniper and a spotter. RNG decides which one dies.
If the spotter dies, the sniper has little LOS and is more vulnerable.

Nice idea.I like it.

Nice idea.I like it.

Me too, +1 but only with addition, 180mp reinforce cost... Right now, the succes snipe on a SU team, earn only 90mp, this is simply not enough, for punishment Russian player.