Jackson a discussion and compariosn

Hello everybody

Most of us no pro types loath the Jackson tank destroyer as an end all be all of the USF Anti tank design.

I am sure it is readily apparent to most that the USF struggles late game. And the overwhelming advice is to utilize the Jackson Tank desroyer. After all its a "Fast" "Mobile" hard hitting tank destoyer. This and only this is all the USF should ever need.

Well lets start with the Cost.

The Jackson requires full tech to the top of the USF tree to be called in. It is the most expensive piece of USF non doc armor in game.

It should rely on its speed and its range and since its "Fast" it should be able to escape danger easily.

So as a balance point to its high damage it has been given every so Slightly more HPs then a Puma 400 vs 480.

With all this being said and try as I might I kept getting my Jacksons in situations that ended in a serious case of death.

So lets look at its acceleration. This is something I have noticed seems to have SOME sort of animation delay or some other factor involved with it be it input lag I dont know. But I notice that it seems to slowly start to accelerate on the level of a Tiger for about half a second THEN it kicks in and starts to move.

When I looked at the acceleration that makes it "Fast" I noticed something

"Fast" apparently means barely faster then a non blitzing P4 acceleration of 2.5 vs the P4 at 2.1

With a Max Speed of 6.5 vs P4 at 6.3

Or better Still a Panther at acceleration of 2.4 and top speed of 6.4

Of course we could always Blitz in which case YEAHHHHH its not fast.

I dont even want to bring the 80 HP less smoke belching Pumas performance into this as a comparison of "Fast"

Now if you compare the M10 on the other hand to it

1.) Dont need to fully tech
2.) It has 10 less range, 20 less Pen (still Pens Panthers just fine) 80 less HPs (what tank does 80 damage seriously) but its SPEED acceleration of 3.2 with a top speed of 70. Now THAT is fast. Of course it only does 160 a shot. So buy two of them and you have a much better TD solution imho.

Now the best part. With its speed myth more or less debunked I would like to know why it has a target size of 24? A medium tank is 22 and the Puma is 18 for example.

With its low HP, Mediocre Speed advantage, Large Target Size to help land all those AT shots, and cost I feel it is UP for the average Joe.

I would like to see its target size lowered and acceleration improved to make it more survivable. When I use the M10 I cant help but feel that THAT is what Glass Cannon should operate like.

It's a unit that needs a lot of babysitting, in my opinion you are punished too much if you forget about the unit even for a short while or you misclick or RNGJesus hits you. And since this is a expensive unit I guess that's just unfair.

It could really need a survivability buff one of this suggestions might help (only one):

-more hp & decrease the damage a bit
-smoke like the M20
-less target size / better acceleration (what jheartless suggested)

You neglect to mention its range though, which is really its best feature. It can outrange almost anything.

I agree it's pretty easy to chase them down with blitz or pumas or whatever though, if you manage to get close enough.

You neglect to mention its range though, which is really its best feature. It can outrange almost anything.

I agree it's pretty easy to chase them down with blitz or pumas or whatever though, if you manage to get close enough.

10 More range then a Puma or an M10 isnt that Huge. Even if they made HVAP vet 2 and Flank Speed Vet 1 that would help.

What ends up happening in game is Jackson fires one shot at German tank. Germans know M36 is on the field.

BEGIN SMEAR THE QUEER STRATEGY! And with its large target size and Meh speed combined with no smoke it will get destoyed in most cases.

Now if it was cheap then ok. But its not cheap and honestly Guards Motor T34/85s are only slightly worse AT solutions with Mark Vehicle Up and are loaded with AI power and 800 HPs....

The best thing about the Jackson is that it gets insta-gibbed by teller mines.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting then. What would you change? It sounds to me like you just want to turn it into another M10

The best thing about the Jackson is that it gets insta-gibbed by teller mines.

But it can insta repair engine damage !!!1111 oh wait you said Tellar....RIP Ms Jackson.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting then. What would you change? It sounds to me like you just want to turn it into another M10

I am suggesting that it have its target size lowered to the Size of an M10 and its top speed and accleration halved with the M10s advantage to start.

So the M10 will still be a little faster but not alot and it wont be the size of a Panther...

Edit: And make sure there are no silly bugs with its acceleration like we have seen in the past with the T34 where it was using its deceleration stat or whatever that bug was because like I said when I use it i notice a slight delay before its acceleration starts to kick in. Not sure if the T34 bug getting it or if its something like a Pathing calculation that its derping on.

The best thing about the Jackson is that it gets insta-gibbed by teller mines.

Seems pretty reasonable. The US late game needs all the help it can get.

Seems pretty reasonable. The US late game needs all the help it can get.

Well that wasnt the L2P your wrong Noob comment I was expecting...oh yeah this isnt steam

You neglect to mention its range though, which is really its best feature. It can outrange almost anything.

I agree it's pretty easy to chase them down with blitz or pumas or whatever though, if you manage to get close enough.

That extra range doesn´t help you chasing down German tanks though. The same on the Panther. They can´t spot for themselves. Thus those two can only reach their full potential on the defense. For the only hard hitting US vehicle not being able to attack is quite unimpressive.

I am also open to any suggestions you guys have. Because I have no luck. And I feel like I am stuck using the USF armored doctrine OR PAY! Which is ok I mean I love the M10 and all but I would like to use some other doctrines now and then and not feel gimped in the AT arena.

That extra range doesn´t help you chasing down German tanks though. The same on the Panther. They can´t spot for themselves. Thus those two can only reach their full potential on the defense. For the only hard hitting US vehicle not being able to attack is quite unimpressive.

not exactly true. jacksons can easily be used offensively, you just need other tanks leading the way to take hits, give sight, and clear infantry. even if they could spot for themselves, you should be doing this.

just had a game last night with an is2 followed by 2 jacksons. its a ridiculous combo.

There's always easy eight spam

There's always easy eight spam

Yes...Yes there is....

Use a few Shermans and 2/3inf units to escort yor Jackson during an assault. If you find an enemy tank just flank with both Shermans and leave the Jackson attack from a safe distance making use of his great range. Send one scuad of infantry to support your Shermans while the other look around the Jackson.

If you find two enemy tanks make the same but focus on a single tank. When the 1st one is destroyed, retreat. With some luck, it will follow you where your jackson and your inf units are.
If you find 3 tanks...well, buy more Shermans.

The range ultimately isn't that good anyway. At max range, it has an 11% chance to deflect off a Panzer IV, and that goes to a 32% chance with a Vet 2 Panzer IV. At point-blank it has a 4% chance to deflect off a Vet 2 StuG or upgraded OKW Panzer IV, insignificant but still funny.

Penetration is 200/180/160. As far as AT Tanks go it's pretty average. Which wouldn't be bad, if it wasn't meant to be the be-all end-all of US AT doctrine.

It's very much a one-trick pony unit.

If you're on a map where you can use its advantages, and manage to protect it from every single AT threat that exists, AND babysit it like crazy, then yes it's going to be extremely effective.

If you cannot meet those three conditions, sometimes you might as well try to kill the enemy's tanks by charging rear echelons at them.

I get that the US is meant to have a harder late game. But I do feel it's really exagerated that one misclick or pathing brainfart can lose you the game, while all other factions can just a-move their heavies to glorious victory.

How about improving penetration for the M36. I've seen 3 shells bounced off my tiger in a row at mid range. That seems pretty fake since the 90mm gun was the only gun that can really penetrate the german Panther and Tiger at long distance.