OKW Puma

From the turret need avoid the circle strafing, at max range shootout not real problem for me use a turretless unit, with hold the range distance, i CAN use the weak Jagtiger or ISU pretty well vs turreted tanks .

I know the free barrage ability, a bit random-lottery gun yes, but i feel better for clearing out the garrisons, force enemy squads leave his cover, than Pumas coaxical mg.

Soviets T4 here in the community, underrated imo too. Where is this rule, the SU player ONLY can build after the T1/T2, a t3 building? If you feel, Puma spam arrive, why you cant going some Guards doctrine, with off map SUPERIOR t34/85 med tanks, and start a cheaper, T1 buildings, with 40 F price, SKIP the t3, instead build fast T4, and counterspamming the SU 76? I guarantee, if you doing well, Sniper-Guards-M3 open, followed by SU 76, and later on T34/85 with mark target, will beat with good success the Puma spam...

From the turret need avoid the circle strafing, at max range shootout not real problem for me use a turretless unit, with hold the range distance, i CAN use the weak Jagtiger or ISU pretty well vs turreted tanks .

I know the free barrage ability, a bit random-lottery gun yes, but i feel better for clearing out the garrisons, force enemy squads leave his cover, than Pumas coaxical mg.

Soviets T4 here in the community, underrated imo too. Where is this rule, the SU player ONLY can build after the T1/T2, a t3 building? If you feel, Puma spam arrive, why you cant going some Guards doctrine, with off map SUPERIOR t34/85 med tanks, and start a cheaper, T1 buildings, with 40 F price, SKIP the t3, instead build fast T4, and counterspamming the SU 76? I guarantee, if you doing well, Sniper-Guards-M3 open, followed by SU 76, and later on T34/85 with mark target, will beat with good success the Puma spam...

Just try spamming su-76s, and see how horrible they truly are.

Beat Puma -s, for cost ratio, especially with Guards, but witout them, only AT nade available conscript enough too, prevent cricle strafe. SU 76 here underrated, as US AT gun too...

Beat Puma -s, for cost ratio, especially with Guards, but witout them, only AT nade available conscript enough too, prevent cricle strafe. SU 76 here underrated, as US AT gun too...

Ok, please post a replay of you beating a well known, good OKW player while spamming su-76s, then i can trust you.

The SU-76's turret is not like the SU-85's. SU-85 gun has some wiggle room but the 76's is even more locked in. Combine that with a real bad turn rate and it can't handle fast moving targets at all.

Keep in mind that Guards Buttoning doesn't work on Puma as long as he has smoke. Smoke breaks it instantly.

I do play without captain against OKW if I can get away with it, since the AT you get there is pretty impotent against their vehicles anyway. AT gun is not very useful against puma (smoke + natural speed), won't pen a Jagd, and the captain himself is not amazing thanks to zook's average penetration. And of course the Stuart is not really good with all the shrecks running around unless you babysit it.

In general, if I'm forced to go captain against OKW, it means I've lost the early game, which means I've almost certainly lost the game period.

The US-OH matchup is sometimes worse. AT guns + captain can keep the StuG/P4 at bay, but you're always at a disadvantage armor wise until you can get your Jackson on the field.

US is VERY reliant on winning the early game and pushing your advantage. If you can't do that, you're in a very bad position because you don't get actual, solid AT until the Jackson is out. Their midgame AT situation is far worse than OKW's, which is why I think the reasoning doesn't really work. Shrecks alone are better AT than anything the US can get until they buy the Major, and the raketen and 57mm are pretty equal sans the lower range.

Again, I don't think the Puma is crazy OP. But it's a very powerful unit that you don't have much reason to not buy, and its speed + smoke makes it crazy survivable for a unit that comes this early. I should know, there's nary an OKW game where I don't build it.

Our views do not differ too much I think. There are just a few points where we disagree, and those are mostly a matter of phrasing.

I agree, that I'm maybe overemphasizing the AT need of the OKW, while I actually want to stress out the armor need in midgame. Puma is the gapfiller for armored mobile AT and AI from OKWs mid to late game. Therefore indispensable, since otherwise OKW would field only inf & support til Kingtiger/Panther.

Where we disagree is in the comparison of the US 57mm and the Raketenwerfer. Those are not equal at all. The 57 is a decent at gun, solid range, decent accuracy, high firing rate, not as good as pak40 or Zis but shortly behind those. The Raketen is a joke the OKW is forced to use in lack of anything else. Its range is bearable, but the firing delay and accuracy make it clownesque. You admit both points (since they are obvious) but you dont want to accept the consequences: Without a proper AT gun OKW has to compensate for it (shreked Volks AND solid AT armor i.e. Puma).

I not use spam to many times, i say only, the right counter for the Puma, as russian, the Su 76. SU 76 coming from RUS T4, and this viable, yes, vs OKW, not just t3. I try search some replay for you, where i use T4 as russian, but because vs me, i dont remember pure puma spam, i never forced be play with counter pure Su76 spam...

The SU-76's turret is not like the SU-85's. SU-85 gun has some wiggle room but the 76's is even more locked in. Combine that with a real bad turn rate and it can't handle fast moving targets at all.

Keep in mind that Guards Buttoning doesn't work on Puma as long as he has smoke. Smoke breaks it instantly.

This right. Button is a amazing skill, without a OSTHER panzer tactician, can litherally kill AC-SC cheap HT-s on the other side, and can for short period of time paralyzed the REAL MED tanks, who has far more ARMOR, and HP, than a puma. I see this: the AC and OSt HT, without docrinal smoke, can be loose for a russian doctrinal chose for guards, plus after the 75 muni upgrade +45 muni button. This units cheap all, and not insta loss for the Ost player, if he lose the first Scout car/halftrack. The Ost med tanks, because have a lots more HP-and armor, without smoke, the button not too much give the lethal strike itself, maybe is backed up with 2-3 AT gun/med tanks, but in this case, the Ost player deserved his med tank lose, again.

Puma, without smoke, with his weak armor, and 400hp, can be easy decimated for only a button, and his price, in OST resource system, not equal for a AC, maybe a P4, so puma need this smoke ability, what is not free, i think current 30 maybe can be raised a bit, but not to much, with 45 muni price, would be only simple counter button ability...

SU 76 for price, beat Puma, with kite, but yes, Puma has the escape ability with smoke. The defenese, what need the SU 76, need for prevent circle strafed by a puma, i never said, Guards and SU 76 insta kill PUmas, but this work without Guards too, with AT naded nearby lurking Conscripts too... IF PUma cant circle strafe the Su76, this unit, with KITE more range, and his own mobility, rate of fire, damage, armor, and CHEAPER price, play the role on the Soviets army, counter - scare away the pumas imo. PUMA role in this game is counter with good micro/kite T34, and all slower /shorter ranged med tanks , not T34 for PUMA, this is simple for me.

Ok, please post a replay of you beating a well known, good OKW player while spamming su-76s, then i can trust you.

I dont know, what is the well know player, im not the best, not pro tournament player, but know the game, what i play for seven years, from Coh1. I find for you a rep from yesterday, where i play as RUS, vs OKW, and use t4 strat, where SU 76 cant faced Puma, but kill Panther, this would be good?

http://www.coh2.org/replay/22888/panther-killer-su76/page/1#post_id204989

I dont know, what is the well know player, im not the best, not pro tournament player, but know the game, what i play for seven years, from Coh1. I find for you a rep from yesterday, where i play as RUS, vs OKW, and use t4 strat, where SU 76 cant faced Puma, but kill Panther, this would be good?

http://www.coh2.org/replay/22888/panther-killer-su76/page/1#post_id204989

i almost took you seriously until i gave it a watch, congratulations on the win anyways. go work your way up and face people who truly understands okw.

he let you mass up 3 shocks but failed to react with a pzII, also he allowed your su76 and zis to shoot his panther rear armour continuously.

he saw a t2 start with shocks but did not react with kubels, he did react with hmg34 though.

he went 4x volks for some reason and his sturmpioneer was camping the house for a good part of the game, failing to utilize the dps. also he went 2x falls, too much manpower invested in infantry while not being very efficient with his own.

apart from the engagement where he lost the panther, he failed to coordinate proper assaults into your lines. most of it were little skirmishes with his volks/falls against conscripts and shocks. most of which he lost and retreated.

mostly, it was just t4 vs a mediocre player. should an experienced one played against you, that sturmpioneer would have long forced ur maxims out while volks draw fire, if that isnt enough, volks will nade the building. opening up more flanking routes into ur mortars.

either puma or luchs will be rushed, that will make ur shocks primarily defensive and your mortars useless. he would be able to claim the map quite easily. going t4 then would be a bad idea. you would have gone for a reactionary AT gun while he will continuously bleed you and gain more ground. until you can take his light armour out, you will be hard pressed for manpower to buy any new units.

i almost took you seriously until i gave it a watch, congratulations on the win anyways. go work your way up and face people who truly understands okw.

he let you mass up 3 shocks but failed to react with a pzII, also he allowed your su76 and zis to shoot his panther rear armour continuously.

he saw a t2 start with shocks but did not react with kubels, he did react with hmg34 though.

he went 4x volks for some reason and his sturmpioneer was camping the house for a good part of the game, failing to utilize the dps. also he went 2x falls, too much manpower invested in infantry while not being very efficient with his own.

apart from the engagement where he lost the panther, he failed to coordinate proper assaults into your lines. most of it were little skirmishes with his volks/falls against conscripts and shocks. most of which he lost and retreated.

mostly, it was just t4 vs a mediocre player. should an experienced one played against you, that sturmpioneer would have long forced ur maxims out while volks draw fire, if that isnt enough, volks will nade the building. opening up more flanking routes into ur mortars.

either puma or luchs will be rushed, that will make ur shocks primarily defensive and your mortars useless. he would be able to claim the map quite easily. going t4 then would be a bad idea. you would have gone for a reactionary AT gun while he will continuously bleed you and gain more ground. until you can take his light armour out, you will be hard pressed for manpower to buy any new units.

Kübel is a good unit, but map like this, as OKW, i prefer the mg34 better too for crowd controll, because many many choke point here, and a lots key house, where i can put mines for kübel, kübel pathfindig terrible, one little mistake, AT nade hit, no more kübel, and kübel cant garrisoned, mg34 can.

His first Panther was circled by AT naded conscripts, and shooted bye AT gun, and SU76 while try evade the AT nades with his frontal armor, i think, turned back to the AT gun, and the SU76 was behind him at chase down situation, thats right, but i think, 1 moment clear, the SU76 with his mobility/range is good synergy with AT guns, AT gun have penetration, dps, SU 76 have mobility for a injured enemy cutting down. This was a Panther, need for me obviously the Panther rear armor, but for a PUMA, this is not factor.

He needed desperatly those fallshirm, because without them, by owerhelming SU infantry power, the game ended, before he can build Obers vs Shocks, and fallshirm was good from deploying the hause.

Maybe you have right with Luchs, but i filled the map with mines, have AT naded Conscripts, 2 vetted mortars, and if he try tech to early, 3x Shock with mg-s mortars, conscripts can make very very good mapcontroll for me imo, and without a map, 1 luchs not make wonder...

Ohh, and vs garrissoned 6 member Maxims, i feel the volks nade is most of times, waste of your munition, i think this is the weakest side for the OKW, before STUKA, you are really weak vs 6members squad in strong building, no flamer attack, and nade not enough powerfull for this job, the OKW mortar, Inf support Gun, is expensive, and unnaccurate as hell...

I never said, this was a top10 game, but that was, what i find, in current patch, where im RUS vs OKW, with T4.

You can upload for me decent replays, where you stomped as RUS vs massed Puma?

Who the hell builds SU76, but in theory wouldn´t the Su76 be a soft counter to Pumas? Pens every time, better RoF and cheap ? The fact that the puma needs 3 shots and the Su76 4 is a problem though.

Lol SU76 counters nothing. It is only used in troll games

I can't believe people's here are seriously suggesting to go soviet T4 against Puma.

Su-76 can't counter anything in this game. Guard's button is countered by vet 0 smoke, and SU85 is not reliable against Puma's superior speed.

Lol SU76 counters nothing. It is only used in troll games

2v2
Before the overbuff and now after the nerf EDIT: of Katy EDIT, it was an option for when:
-I did go T1 and i didn´t want to go T2 and wait for Call ins
-I had "too much" fuel in comparison to CPs
-Opponent had SC/Puma/HT
-Opponent had a considerable amount of support weapons or playing in a sector really defensive.
-OH had T3.

Basically, i want some indirect fire and some light AT to support my partners T2-T3 play. Problem is that it dies SO FAST, that a +10hp increase would really help.

I can't believe people's here are seriously suggesting to go soviet T4 against Puma.

Su-76 can't counter anything in this game. Guard's button is countered by vet 0 smoke, and SU85 is not reliable against Puma's superior speed.

I seriously belive for SU 76, as a cost effective Puma/Luchs counter, and softcounter for AT guns, mgs, mortars, all garrisoned troops, yes. This is the role what relic want for this unit, im sure for this...

2v2
Before the overbuff and now after the nerf, it was an option for when:
-I did go T1 and i didn´t want to go T2 and wait for Call ins
-I had "too much" fuel in comparison to CPs
-Opponent had SC/Puma/HT
-Opponent had a considerable amount of support weapons or playing in a sector really defensive.
-OH had T3.

Basically, i want some indirect fire and some light AT to support my partners T2-T3 play. Problem is that it dies SO FAST, that a +10hp increase would really help.

when was su76 ever overbuffed?

when was su76 ever overbuffed?

vCoH2 closed beta.

I´ve already edit it. I forgot to write Katyushka. My bad One of the few reasons to go T4

Edit: the new cooldown makes it take too long to pay for itself while it leaves you open to any vehicle push.

Relic give T-80 to counter Pumas pls.
Since that lobotomy i can't do anything more than frontalcharge in open terrain a vehicle 3 times faster than mine.

OKW vs US matchup :

OKW build order : Kübel, Volks, Volks, Volks, Puma ...
US build order : Rifle, Rifle, Rifle, Rifle, LT into M20

Kübel fucks up US early game. US struggles to kill Kübel and gets M20 to kill it. Kübel dies. Puma comes and kills M20. OKW spams more elite infantry, preferably Jaegers. US tries to counter infantry. OKW spams more infantry and Puma keeps shooting and occasionally sniping infantry. gg.

Theres no reason to NOT rush out a Puma vs US.