Do Tigers really need Blitzkrieg?

The thing is, i feel that all vet abilities need a rework.

I mean sure, tripwire flares on conscripts are fine, they add some utility to them. However, tripwire flares on shocks, gaurds penals are completely wasted...

Same with capture point, they are decent on say a t-70, maybe on a t-34, but on IS-2s,, kv-1s, they simply aren't usefull.

The only vehicle that it would make sense to have blitz is the panther, other german vehicles were rather slow, and mobility is supposedly one of the advantages allied tanks should get, yet with blitz that's all negated.

I feel that t-34s are the tanks that should get blitz, is-2s and kv-2s should get some kind of "breakthruoght assault" that temporarily causes their main gun to pin enemy troops, tigers and PIVs could get something like aimed shot for the puma or something. Panther could get it's blitz ability. KV-1s should get hull down, like the PE PIV that makes them fire faster.

Blitz is just one of those abilities that make the su-85 completely useless in 1v1 way.

M36 jacksons aren't so affected, because they have a turret and do collosal damage.

Simply this. Its worth the effort of replacing crap abilities instead of removing the good ones.

I think these statistics are wrong but ..... RNG can work enough wonders to mess up someones head and ruins some people's prespective.

I don't think it's RNG when IS2 front armor is bouncing everything 90% of the time besides JT, KT & Ele

Uhhhhh... What!? Im pretty sure the tiger can beat the IS2 head up. I could be wrong, but I cant recall losing a tiger to an IS2 without massively screwing up the tiger micro.

whens the last time you tried it? once upon a time you were right, but is2 has better armor, pen, and speed. the tiger has also lots it hitpoint advantage.

is2 has a 63-83% chance to pen front armor.
tiger has a 48-59% chance to pen front armor.

at max range, the is2 has a better chance to pen a tiger than the tiger does at 0 range. guess who wins that fight?

Had a fight a few games ago, which is now a patch ago, I saved replay but can't post now. Eh, if those starts are correct your right, guess rng and micro was on my side.

whens the last time you tried it? once upon a time you were right, but is2 has better armor, pen, and speed. the tiger has also lots it hitpoint advantage.

is2 has a 63-83% chance to pen front armor.
tiger has a 48-59% chance to pen front armor.

at max range, the is2 has a better chance to pen a tiger than the tiger does at 0 range. guess who wins that fight?

You're discounting the Tiger's faster rate of fire as far as I know.

whens the last time you tried it? once upon a time you were right, but is2 has better armor, pen, and speed. the tiger has also lots it hitpoint advantage.

is2 has a 63-83% chance to pen front armor.
tiger has a 48-59% chance to pen front armor.

at max range, the is2 has a better chance to pen a tiger than the tiger does at 0 range. guess who wins that fight?

And why you don´t mention the difference on RoF? You get 5 shots against his 4 shots.
Why don´t we take into account support from 1 zis and 1 pak40 (which is most likely a real situation)?
Dunno, I still feel confident of dealing with IS2+Zis with Tiger+Pak40. Specially since it´s one of the few targets on which is easy to land a TWP.
It´s a close fight but Tiger with support has a slight edge against IS2 with support. It´s not as one sided as before.

Q: while target size are the same, isn´t the actual game size different?. Doesn´t this make reposition harder and increases RNG for shots landing either on the front/rear ?


I´m gonna ask it again: would it be too complicated and far from design expectation to disable REVERSE command when the ability is active ?

You're discounting the Tiger's faster rate of fire as far as I know.

except the is2 rate of fire got buffed a few patches ago as well. the difference is now 5.25 seconds vs 6.65.

1.4 seconds is not nearly enough to make up for the huge difference in chance to pen.

Why don´t we take into account support from 1 zis and 1 pak40 (which is most likely a real situation)?

well you can theory craft and add as many units to the situation as youd like. feel free. tiger vs is2 was what was being discussed and i answered. is2 beats a tiger.

Yes tiger vs is2 unsupported Mano y Mano is what the topic of convo was. And apparently is2 wins. I will say is2 seems to get more crew shocks.

For those complaining that the Tiger needs something to replace Blitz, why not the same ability the IS-2 gets?

Couple of posts invised for disrespectful attitudes......Moderators have had their work cut out to save this thread on at least a couple of occasions by multiple invis...it's losing its legs and I am sure that you would prefer it expired gently.....please let it be that way?

I dont understand how you mean to implement this.

1) There is no "in combat" game mechanic. The game doesnt differentiate, in anyway, between units that are in combat and those who arent. Its not like WoW or other MMOs where there is a distinct flagged "in combat" state.
2) A longer cooldown is certainly an option, but I dont see how that relates to being in combat, or not.
Btw, what is the current CD on Blitz?
3) To be brutally objective, it is irrelevant whether "Blitzkrieg" as an ability related to a historical concept, here portrayed as an "aggressive and fast action", is popped either on the advance, or on the retreat. It still fits the "Blitzkrieg" concept. The concept of lightning war, can be understood to mean both. Whether it is used in advance, or strategic retreat, the action is still fast and "blitzing" in nature. Know what I mean?

The game does have an in combat mechanic. It presents itself as like a pulsing red circular graphic on a units logo. The game already implements this state to regulate other activities. Check it out in your next game/stream/video. This on/off state can easily be used to control abilities and other things.

Ok so I've read about 10 pages of posts and may have missed a similar suggestion, so don’t bite my head off.

But here is my idea on how to change Blitz. Make the acceleration of the blitz slower while the vehicle is in combat. And in order to balance that out make the top speed slightly higher. This way blitz cant be used to run away as easily and if you want to use it offensively, you have to activate it before you are getting shot at in order to get to an effective high speed.

I imagine that every time the vehicle takes a penetrating hit the acceleration freezes (the vehicle does not come to a stop) for 1.5 while blitz is active. Also multiple hits in the 1.5 second span do not stack, that way your blitz will still work it will just take you longer to hit top speed if you are using blitz to run away.

What do you guys think?

I dont understand how you mean to implement this.

1) There is no "in combat" game mechanic. The game doesnt differentiate, in anyway, between units that are in combat and those who arent. Its not like WoW or other MMOs where there is a distinct flagged "in combat" state.

US rifles defensive stance, guards motor repair, infiltration grenades cooldown etc all dependent on what Relic considers to be "out of combat", which seems to be "not already shooting at stuff"

I stand corrected.
Seems there is indeed a mechanic that can "grey" the ability if in combat.

Quite a harsh nerf in practice though, as youd have to "hide" armor either far back, or out of LoS in order to activate it, as well as making it inoperable for a fast retreat.

Wouls the system be able to keep it "on" after activation, even though the unit is firing/being fired at?

The current system for defensive stance remains on while in combat as long as it was activated prior to engagement so there should be no reason relic couldn't keep blitz "on" after activation if the tank using it then enters combat.

The way I think blitz was intented to work was as a fast flanking method, not retreat. Consider a late game postion; sov player has a heavy tank, some AT guns and meduim tanks.German player has similar units including a tiger and vet 1+ P4 or panther. The german player would want to kill the sov heavy tank so drives the tiger foward. Sov player sees this as opertunity to kill tiger so moves tanks/AT guns towards the tiger, meanwhile P4/panther use Blitz to flank the heavy tank and suprise the sov player. ( could use arty to hit the sov heavy, then blitz flank around the AT guns/ meduim tanks to kill the heavy when it is being repaired.)

So my suggestion is to keep Blitz as a FOWARD only boost for the panther/P4. And replace the tigers blitz by something like; 1: being able to "hull down" to increase defense to allow the meduim tanks time to flank. 2: the ability stops the tiger and increases fire rate and/or accuracy. I think both of these would have a time limit on like 30s hull down. (Test time to find what would be suitable)
Having FOWARD only blitz would punish people who use blitz as a way to escape as the tank would expose its rear armour.