Do Tigers really need Blitzkrieg?

The thing is, i feel that all vet abilities need a rework.

I mean sure, tripwire flares on conscripts are fine, they add some utility to them. However, tripwire flares on shocks, gaurds penals are completely wasted...

Same with capture point, they are decent on say a t-70, maybe on a t-34, but on IS-2s,, kv-1s, they simply aren't usefull.

The only vehicle that it would make sense to have blitz is the panther, other german vehicles were rather slow, and mobility is supposedly one of the advantages allied tanks should get, yet with blitz that's all negated.

I feel that t-34s are the tanks that should get blitz, is-2s and kv-2s should get some kind of "breakthruoght assault" that temporarily causes their main gun to pin enemy troops, tigers and PIVs could get something like aimed shot for the puma or something. Panther could get it's blitz ability. KV-1s should get hull down, like the PE PIV that makes them fire faster.

Blitz is just one of those abilities that make the su-85 completely useless in 1v1 way.

M36 jacksons aren't so affected, because they have a turret and do collosal damage.

The thing is, i feel that all vet abilities need a rework.

Not all, but certainly infantry and tanks(not TDs) of the ones of vanila armies.

Could someone kindly mine the actual Blitzkrieg stat modifiers out for us, so we can examine them, learn and maybe come up with a concrete adjustment suggestion?

Katitof: Burts said thats his view and how he feels on the issue. Give it a rest. Hes entitled to his opinion, and yours doesnt defacto trump it.

MY ARGUMENT?

Well how about this?

Largest teching cost in the game..while u guys are chilling on call-ins.
ZERO AI capability.Has to flee from a single AT gun...whats the point the armor if it can't kill?
Worthless reload..worthless accuracy-misses half the time..avg dmg.
175 FUEL.
Whats the point of armor and health if its incapable of killing anything.
Tank hunter..lol.
Glorified meatshield with dud gun and drunk gunner.

There..go on.

P.S :If u don't believe me..u don't have to.I would ask u to do a simple thing..play ostheer for 12 matches in teamgames using the panther.U'll get my argument.I dare u..do it and use the panther.I dare u.Then come and give feedback.Good day.

Panther has pintle upgrade which is cheap and effective AI. All pintle gunners are a no-brainer upgrade in the game and the panthers is no exception. With this upgrade it is impossible for a single at gun to beat a managed panther. The pintle gunner alone would defeat the at gun. You could have a damaged main gun panther with an active pintle gunner and you will win vs a single at gun. As you know my playercard is visible and you can see that I meet your 12 match experience requirement. My experience with panthers has been much more fruitful than yours seem to be, so I think your doing something wrong. It's not even Rngesus. With blitzkreig you can beat the single at gun possibly without even taking damage. I consider it to be about the best tank in CoH2, just as I found it to be the best tank in CoH1 for the 6-7 years I played that.

Especially from Panther?? You ever used a Panther ever? Unless you get lucky with RNG and lots of shots bouncing, 2 T34/76s will rape Panther.

How about IS2? That thing has much more armor than Tiger, is faster and has a better gun, yet costs the same. Only thing Tiger has over IS2 is blitz and reload time and I guess it's a smaller target, but none of those things make up for the other differences.

Tiger also has more HP than IS2 last I checked (even after the WFA hp reduction). I think it's cheaper too, but I would need to check that. 2 t34/76 cost more than panther (disregarding tech costs), so seeing them beat a panther is not a problem.

IS-2 is just lol atm.Unless u picked tiger doctrine u can't counter it as ostheer basically.Pz 4 even in packs will lose because they can't penetrate its armor..even rear most of the time.Paks take too long to kill before one shotted..this still remains the best method.
Panther extinct.
Elefant extinct.
pAK 43 extinct.

Last sentinel tiger-even that may lose....but no,that can't be.Tiger is the last missing link to deleting ostheer armor from the game.It has to be eliminated.

Panther does a pretty good job against IS2, it might need a little extra help, but considering the cost difference, it's understandable. That's my experience at least, I haven't found panther to be "extinct" to me. Pak43 is a deterent to anyone with a functional brain that knows it's there. I'm not going to see an IS2 and immediately think, I need a pak43. I don't know about elefant, I haven't used it since the range decrease. I did fight one that was surrounded by a pack of other tanks and I couldn't get to it. I will say I don't share your gloomy position on axis armor. I think if there is anything this community can agree on, axis has the best armor statistically. I may not have as many axis games as others, but those I have played have never resulted in me feeling I can't deal with ANY allied armored vehicles.

Vaz, didnt you read Wifidi just saying to stick to topic..?

The thing is, i feel that all vet abilities need a rework.

I mean sure, tripwire flares on conscripts are fine, they add some utility to them. However, tripwire flares on shocks, gaurds penals are completely wasted...

Same with capture point, they are decent on say a t-70, maybe on a t-34, but on IS-2s,, kv-1s, they simply aren't usefull.

The only vehicle that it would make sense to have blitz is the panther, other german vehicles were rather slow, and mobility is supposedly one of the advantages allied tanks should get, yet with blitz that's all negated.

I feel that t-34s are the tanks that should get blitz, is-2s and kv-2s should get some kind of "breakthruoght assault" that temporarily causes their main gun to pin enemy troops, tigers and PIVs could get something like aimed shot for the puma or something. Panther could get it's blitz ability. KV-1s should get hull down, like the PE PIV that makes them fire faster.

Blitz is just one of those abilities that make the su-85 completely useless in 1v1 way.

M36 jacksons aren't so affected, because they have a turret and do collosal damage.

That IS2 suggestion is a bit scary, I don't think we would ever hear the end of that. KV1 idea is pretty cool though, that tank needs something. I never want to build them.

Panther has pintle upgrade which is cheap and effective AI. All pintle gunners are a no-brainer upgrade in the game and the panthers is no exception. With this upgrade it is impossible for a single at gun to beat a managed panther. The pintle gunner alone would defeat the at gun. You could have a damaged main gun panther with an active pintle gunner and you will win vs a single at gun. As you know my playercard is visible and you can see that I meet your 12 match experience requirement. My experience with panthers has been much more fruitful than yours seem to be, so I think your doing something wrong. It's not even Rngesus. With blitzkreig you can beat the single at gun possibly without even taking damage. I consider it to be about the best tank in CoH2, just as I found it to be the best tank in CoH1 for the 6-7 years I played that.





Tiger also has more HP than IS2 last I checked (even after the WFA hp reduction). I think it's cheaper too, but I would need to check that. 2 t34/76 cost more than panther (disregarding tech costs), so seeing them beat a panther is not a problem.





Panther does a pretty good job against IS2, it might need a little extra help, but considering the cost difference, it's understandable. That's my experience at least, I haven't found panther to be "extinct" to me. Pak43 is a deterent to anyone with a functional brain that knows it's there. I'm not going to see an IS2 and immediately think, I need a pak43. I don't know about elefant, I haven't used it since the range decrease. I did fight one that was surrounded by a pack of other tanks and I couldn't get to it. I will say I don't share your gloomy position on axis armor. I think if there is anything this community can agree on, axis has the best armor statistically. I may not have as many axis games as others, but those I have played have never resulted in me feeling I can't deal with ANY allied armored vehicles.

Start another thread with this post,i'll answer u there.

L2P issue here. Do you even know how to use a tank destroyer? You don't use it as a mainline tank, use its range to your advantage and kill outside of their range. Most TDs have 60 range compared to regular tanks which have 40 range.

Sure keep it at optimal range, the blitzing tiger reverses quicker than SU-85 moves forward. GOOD LUCK finishing off a Tiger unless you crit it when your opponent fucks up.

See this is what it seems you are missing. Blitz is not fair because there is no way of stopping it. Your opponent gets outta jail for just about free while you are stuck trying to pry your way through the enemy lines just to finish off the tank. I can link you to my official forum post and Relic's response as to why they changed it in the first place.

Now why do you think its fair blitz is so great when Soviet tanks have useless vet ability? SU-85's sight increase is good in all but when the tank blitz away all your extra sight is for naught. It needs to go back to being an acceleration buff to be fair.

Sure keep it at optimal range, the blitzing tiger reverses quicker than SU-85 moves forward. GOOD LUCK finishing off a Tiger unless you crit it when your opponent fucks up.

See this is what it seems you are missing. Blitz is not fair because there is no way of stopping it. Your opponent gets outta jail for just about free while you are stuck trying to pry your way through the enemy lines just to finish off the tank. I can link you to my official forum post and Relic's response as to why they changed it in the first place.

Now why do you think its fair blitz is so great when Soviet tanks have useless vet ability? SU-85's sight increase is good in all but when the tank blitz away all your extra sight is for naught. It needs to go back to being an acceleration buff to be fair.

Just lay a dirt cheap 25 muni mine in front that u guys love 2 spam and still 1 shots squads occasionally.
Let me tell u something abt fair?You know once there existed 2 ugly fat cousins who loved messing other people's games up-the elefant and the isu.People on both sides got angry ...then one day one of them vanished..never to be seen again.While the second fat fuck continued to mess people's games up..usually typing L2P while doing it.Now only one side is very very angry..guess who?
And that is somehow fair.Its been 5 months..and we go on.fair,fair,fair.

Tiger also has more HP than IS2 last I checked (even after the WFA hp reduction). I think it's cheaper too, but I would need to check that. 2 t34/76 cost more than panther (disregarding tech costs), so seeing them beat a panther is not a problem.

More HP doesn't mean a great deal if the IS2 is getting penetrated like 1/3 of the time compared to 2/3 for Tiger. And they cost the exact same yet the IS2 is quite a bit better. Just played a 3v3 game before on City 17 where IS2s were wiping squads left and right. Literally one shotting fallschirmjaegars.

One Panther should beat 2 T34/76s because Panther is a tank hunter/destroyer with limited AI capability vs 2 T34s which are all-rounders and the panther doesn't even cost much less: 490mp 175fu vs 620mp 200fu.

Sure keep it at optimal range, the blitzing tiger reverses quicker than SU-85 moves forward. GOOD LUCK finishing off a Tiger unless you crit it when your opponent fucks up.

See this is what it seems you are missing. Blitz is not fair because there is no way of stopping it. Your opponent gets outta jail for just about free while you are stuck trying to pry your way through the enemy lines just to finish off the tank. I can link you to my official forum post and Relic's response as to why they changed it in the first place.

Now why do you think its fair blitz is so great when Soviet tanks have useless vet ability? SU-85's sight increase is good in all but when the tank blitz away all your extra sight is for naught. It needs to go back to being an acceleration buff to be fair.

Wow you are talking 'no way of stopping' 'get out of jail free' hmmm, that sounds familiar... sounds a bit like... ISU.

What's the big deal to nerf the Tiger even more when almost the whole of OST is underperforming. Tiger is carrying OST right now and it has to be nerfed even more...

Just lay a dirt cheap 25 muni mine in front that u guys love 2 spam and still 1 shots squads occasionally.
Let me tell u something abt fair?You know once there existed 2 ugly fat cousins who loved messing other people's games up-the elefant and the isu.People on both sides got angry ...then one day one of them vanished..never to be seen again.While the second fat fuck continued to mess people's games up..usually typing L2P while doing it.Now only one side is very very angry..guess who?
And that is somehow fair.Its been 5 months..and we go on.fair,fair,fair.

Right so you clearly lack the whole picture. You think this game has favored Allies for 5 months? what about how in the first march deployment Soviets had literally nothing better than Ostheer and grens killed everything? What about in the second patch where most of the game was fine except people realized the only way to win as Soviets was with cheese strats because the rest of the faction scales poorly or has an uncertain role?

The reason Axis has been nerfed so much is because the Soviet faction is not designed terribly well. And the same cheese strats that only worked before still work, in fact better because of the nerfs. It is not that Allies are over powered its that Axis was designed better and quite simply works.

Now the problems through design have intensified and you still dont see the picture. Rather than trying to fix they problems they decided to make two factions that are even more one dimensional, and yet OKW works better. USF has a very weak late game, and while you can through smart play mitigate the damage and superiority of the USF the Late game is completely unavoidable. It simply elaborated on the Soviets current problems. Likewise the OKW went in an even more late game focused design with more fire power. What they lack is even more counters than Ostheer to cheese play, hence why people are so up in arms about why Axis as a whole is under preforming. Look at the strategies that win as Allies, they do not for the most part rely on combined arms because it does not work. So thus Allies are stuck relying on "dirty tactics" which pisses everyone off. Players claim the searching numbers mean more or less. My opinion on the matter is that there are players that hate using dirt to win, and even more that just like the design of the Axis more.

Now back on topic How does not having blitz make it unfair? 2 whole factions get along without blitz using their tanks, I see no reason for a get outta jail free card to be given to the biggest baddest tank out there. KT is great in all but way more costly, Tiger meta is simply better. Here you can have the crappy vet abilities Soviet has and trade them with Ostheer. You'll be incredibly upset when an IS-2 over steps and blitzs off without anything you can do about it. Sure you can mine, but minesweepers clear them and you cannot mine EVERY path the tank can take, plus when lines are drawn how do you expect to get forward and mine? IN addition the thing that makes people upset about blitz is that players do not use it as intended for flanks, its used to poke forward, squad wipe something, and blitz back to be repaired.

Even more frustrating is the fact it can be used with engine damage so even if you do mine, with blitz active it almost moves the same it did before

There is a whole wider picture you seem to be lacking. I hope other players in your boat will broaden their views with this post

Blitz is not fair because there is no way of stopping it.

engine damage?

Now back on topic How does not having blitz make it unfair? 2 whole factions get along without blitz using their tanks, I see no reason for a get outta jail free card to be given to the biggest baddest tank out there.

How would it be fair if Tigers had NO Vet ability?

More HP doesn't mean a great deal if the IS2 is getting penetrated like 1/3 of the time compared to 2/3 for Tiger. And they cost the exact same yet the IS2 is quite a bit better. Just played a 3v3 game before on City 17 where IS2s were wiping squads left and right. Literally one shotting fallschirmjaegars.

One Panther should beat 2 T34/76s because Panther is a tank hunter/destroyer with limited AI capability vs 2 T34s which are all-rounders and the panther doesn't even cost much less: 490mp 175fu vs 620mp 200fu.



Wow you are talking 'no way of stopping' 'get out of jail free' hmmm, that sounds familiar... sounds a bit like... ISU.

What's the big deal to nerf the Tiger even more when almost the whole of OST is underperforming. Tiger is carrying OST right now and it has to be nerfed even more...

Stay on topic, Just because you think one thing is broke does not mean other problems exist. ISU is still a problem, but it is not the topic, and is a heavy tank, not a vet ability handed to Axis turreted tanks.

How would it be fair if Tigers had NO Vet ability?

My earlier post suggested that it should go back to being acceleration buff. Plus how would it not be? you could have the Soviet capping power vet ability instead

engine damage?

Unless it was nowhere in patch notes, Engine damage does not stop it. It just makes it less effective, reason to be even more frustrated when it gets away after being engine damaged

My earlier post suggested that it should go back to being acceleration buff.

Do you happen to know the exact stat modifiers for Blitzkrieg as they are right now?

How would it be fair if Tigers had NO Vet ability?

you can have capture point for blitz, i can live with is2 without vet ability. oh, dont need to compensate is2 with vet1 bonuses too, i'd be happy with just the visual aspect.

Why Capture Point?
Why identical to Sov?

Why not Target Weakspot for example?

Wouldn't it make sense for an axis ability on an axis unit, rather than destroying asymmetric balance and difference by copy/pasting from opposing faction?