SU-85 is a good unit, but its a similar story with panther - the super tanks come out not long after so no one uses them.
No one wants a panther when they can get a tiger, no one wants the SU-85 if they can get an IS-2 or ISU-152
JagdPanzer IV vs SU85
17 Aug 2014, 14:59 PM
#21
Posts: 19
17 Aug 2014, 17:15 PM
#22
Posts: 647
i would use the shit out of su85 if i have confidence that jagdtiger or elefants wont be deployed.
problems with su85 is not that the unit is bad, its gun is pretty good. sure it needs a frontal armor buff and a size decrease to make up for all its previous nerfs, similarly for the stug. most importantly, its natural counter, infantry, needs a little more effort than just right click and snipe it down with schrecks. the reason for schreck nerf in vcoh was because they were too effective in taking out tanks at a small investment cost.
now with okw getting 100% munitions rates, volks blob are usually fully upgraded with schrecks and capable of salvoing tanks, not to mention they vet up really fast too
problems with su85 is not that the unit is bad, its gun is pretty good. sure it needs a frontal armor buff and a size decrease to make up for all its previous nerfs, similarly for the stug. most importantly, its natural counter, infantry, needs a little more effort than just right click and snipe it down with schrecks. the reason for schreck nerf in vcoh was because they were too effective in taking out tanks at a small investment cost.
now with okw getting 100% munitions rates, volks blob are usually fully upgraded with schrecks and capable of salvoing tanks, not to mention they vet up really fast too
17 Aug 2014, 17:25 PM
#23
Posts: 1637
Command Panther + Vet 2 JP4 is like a Vet 3 T70 in recon lol. Sight buff from the Panther stacks with the Vet 2 buff of the JP4. Too damn funny.
My opinion is the JP4 is light years ahead of the SU85 just due to the faction it is a part of let alone the better stats that it has.
My opinion is the JP4 is light years ahead of the SU85 just due to the faction it is a part of let alone the better stats that it has.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
17 Aug 2014, 17:31 PM
#24
Posts: 2070
maybe reduce cost of soviet t4? maybe that will be an incentive to use that tank
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
17 Aug 2014, 18:07 PM
#25
Posts: 1225
The SU could use a minor buff, I am thinking acceleration and rotation speed...the thing about it to keep in mind is that it performs better against German heavy armour - especially the Tiger/KT then it does against mediums, Pumas, etc. In this niche it performs well, but then again on some maps it has very little use.
17 Aug 2014, 18:33 PM
#26
Posts: 52
SU-85 should get simmilar stats as Jagdpanzer.. even with higher price.. also smoke is needed
17 Aug 2014, 20:17 PM
#27
1 
Posts: 24
Yeah su-85 should also one shot infantry and should be moved to t2.
17 Aug 2014, 20:42 PM
#28
Posts: 971
maybe reduce cost of soviet t4? maybe that will be an incentive to use that tank
T4's cost should be reduced if you built T3 beforehand and vice versa.
That would encourage playing with non-doctrinal units instead of waiting for call-ins.
And yes, SU85 needs a buff in acceleration or armour, one of them.
17 Aug 2014, 20:58 PM
#29
Posts: 2561
Biggest problem with the SU-85 is that if they call in a elephant or Jagdtiger you are basically done, since you are locked into that tech and there is no AT infantry. Just better hope you chose a doctrine with 85s or heavy arty.
18 Aug 2014, 03:02 AM
#30
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
This fits into my Soviet Core faction design discussion. The SU85 needs to be updated taking into the A) armor changes after buffs to various units B) new armor units introduced in the WFA expansion.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
18 Aug 2014, 03:11 AM
#31
Posts: 2070
This fits into my Soviet Core faction design discussion. The SU85 needs to be updated taking into the A) armor changes after buffs to various units B) new armor units introduced in the WFA expansion.
where is it? i would like to read it
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
18 Aug 2014, 05:43 AM
#33
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
SU-85 when supported is good.(1v1 only)
18 Aug 2014, 06:30 AM
#34
14 Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9
Troll post invised.
18 Aug 2014, 13:10 PM
#35
Posts: 971
SU-85 when supported is good.(1v1 only)
I agree, but in 2vs2 with much more units in the map is very easy to flank, and it doesn't have the speed or the armor to survive a flank.
18 Aug 2014, 13:57 PM
#36
Posts: 1701
I agree, but in 2vs2 with much more units in the map is very easy to flank, and it doesn't have the speed or the armor to survive a flank.
And also with more units in 2v2 is easier to protect against flanks.
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18 Aug 2014, 14:06 PM
#37
Posts: 1702
the su-85 performance wise is fine in my opinion.
What kills it is the complete inflexibility of soviet T4.
su-85 good
katy -bad in 1v1
su-76 useless
Because most soviet call ins are also inflexible (very expensive) except for kv-1 and advanced warfare t-34/85
this means,that if you go T4, you pretty much get NO reliable anti infantry, and because soviet late game inf is inferior to axis late game inf, this makes it extremelly innefective unless you go counterattack tactics or advanced warfare.
Backed up by kv-1s or t-34/85s from advanced warfare su-85s perform quite well.
So in my opinion, the way to fix it is make the su-76 direct fire good againt's infantry. And decrease the cooldown of katyusha to say 70 or 80 seconds (and panzerwerfer too).
This is not true for OKW because their late game infantry is amazing and they don't need tanks to deal with infantry, that alone makes jagpanzer better,altho the lack of fausts also hampers it's effectiveness somewhat.
What kills it is the complete inflexibility of soviet T4.
su-85 good
katy -bad in 1v1
su-76 useless
Because most soviet call ins are also inflexible (very expensive) except for kv-1 and advanced warfare t-34/85
this means,that if you go T4, you pretty much get NO reliable anti infantry, and because soviet late game inf is inferior to axis late game inf, this makes it extremelly innefective unless you go counterattack tactics or advanced warfare.
Backed up by kv-1s or t-34/85s from advanced warfare su-85s perform quite well.
So in my opinion, the way to fix it is make the su-76 direct fire good againt's infantry. And decrease the cooldown of katyusha to say 70 or 80 seconds (and panzerwerfer too).
This is not true for OKW because their late game infantry is amazing and they don't need tanks to deal with infantry, that alone makes jagpanzer better,altho the lack of fausts also hampers it's effectiveness somewhat.
18 Aug 2014, 15:16 PM
#38
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
If the SU85 is 'fine' the JP IV must be 'fantastic'.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
18 Aug 2014, 15:25 PM
#39
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
If the SU85 is 'fine' the JP IV must be 'fantastic'.
Or we could use our axis only friends terminology and replace 'fine' with 'underpowered' and 'fantastic' with 'op'.
SU-85 is no competition for JP4. JP got superior stats, optical stealth technology, much better scaling, MUCH better supportive AT that doesn't require specific tier to get and literally no teching cost if you open with med truck.
Had allies something of this caliber we'd be drown in tears within minutes of its release.
That being said, I don't believe either is OP or UP, JP4 is pretty amazing but SU-85 suffers from classic T4 problem-you get units that can be replaced with different units more effectively and earlier(or later if we want to use ISU instead of SU-85).
T4 overall doesn't perform well enough to appeal to anyone to get it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Aug 2014, 16:07 PM
#40
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
I would here say that due to OKW fuel shortages, a JPz is rarely accompanied by other vehicles. But with Soviet teching costs it's hardly true.
Regardless of how the two units measure up directly, two more facts should be considered : a JPIV has Schreck support, while an Su85 does not. German tanks have blitz, while allied ones do not.
Regardless of how the two units measure up directly, two more facts should be considered : a JPIV has Schreck support, while an Su85 does not. German tanks have blitz, while allied ones do not.
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