Why isn't the King Tiger doctrinal?
13 Aug 2014, 05:08 AM
#21
Posts: 578
LOL. You're NOW complaining about a tank that needs 40+40+80+260 = 420 fuel to get (OKW is already fuel handicapped, so this is 420 * 3/2 = 630 fuel). If your opponent makes other vehicles it delays the KT by a lot. If they're saving up for a KT that gives you AMPLE to time to overrun them considering their army comprises of only infantry. Seriously, what more idiotic nerfs can you think up for Axis? Blobbing not good enough these days?
13 Aug 2014, 05:41 AM
#22
Posts: 210
The KT is a game decider late game. In team games Axis just need to hold 1 VP, a fuel, some caches and last out until they can start pumping out KTs in addition to everything else they have.
Some of the things KTs get away with late game...even the vCoH KT couldn't do. With even minor support one KT can clear groups of Shermans/T-34s. 2 KTs with support are literally unstoppable.
What sucks for allies is that they can have total map dominance for 30-45 mins and in the last ten minutes have the game flipped upside down and never be able to get back into the game again.
PLUS ONE!!!!! Couldnt agree more.
13 Aug 2014, 05:55 AM
#23
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
I'm glad this game is not decided by map dominance, but by strategical and tactical decisions. If somebody sacrifices map control for a steady fuel income it is up to you to prepare for an attack that will eventually come. Especially when no okw vehicles hit the field during the game.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
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Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
13 Aug 2014, 06:13 AM
#24
Posts: 93
LOL. You're NOW complaining about a tank that needs 40+40+80+260 = 420 fuel to get (OKW is already fuel handicapped, so this is 420 * 3/2 = 630 fuel). If your opponent makes other vehicles it delays the KT by a lot. If they're saving up for a KT that gives you AMPLE to time to overrun them considering their army comprises of only infantry. Seriously, what more idiotic nerfs can you think up for Axis? Blobbing not good enough these days?
Basically this ^
If you don't push the armor advantage before the KT arrives (which is quite a while) you have to prepare for a counter-attack that will be spearheaded by the KT. There are plenty of ways to deal with it so no point in complaining about it. It's pretty much similar to fighting the old Tiger Ace. It is completely doable.
13 Aug 2014, 06:15 AM
#25
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
That is a non-turreted doctrinal unit. Big difference.
The turret on the KT is so slow to rotate its basically useless once stuff is behind it anyway.
13 Aug 2014, 07:16 AM
#26
Posts: 110
At the moment you start building, all trucks need to be deployed. If you lose one while building, KT will still finish though.
No.
13 Aug 2014, 08:26 AM
#27
Posts: 79
When I play 2v2 as Soviets (mate US) and we have map dominance most time, I will have 2 ISU when his KT arrives. Add Guards in, and KT is useless.
Oh and add P47 and IL2 bombing in the mix.
As double USF you might get in some trouble though.
Oh and add P47 and IL2 bombing in the mix.
As double USF you might get in some trouble though.
13 Aug 2014, 08:32 AM
#28
Posts: 752
The recent Rewind Cup matches demonstrated this in G2 I think it was of the_red_bear vs CieZ.
A good showcase match of what to do, and not to do.
To collapse it, basically it involved CieZ turtling till 100v400VP, and then striking out, showing the OKW side of this issue. In response, the_red_bear made some key mistakes, especially involving ZiS positioning and forgetting to use Mark Vehicle.
All that considered, I think its a very good match to watch to learn from mistakes etc of what to do, and what not to do.
Ill see if I can find the link to the match later, unless some kind generous soul beats me to it.
A good showcase match of what to do, and not to do.
To collapse it, basically it involved CieZ turtling till 100v400VP, and then striking out, showing the OKW side of this issue. In response, the_red_bear made some key mistakes, especially involving ZiS positioning and forgetting to use Mark Vehicle.
All that considered, I think its a very good match to watch to learn from mistakes etc of what to do, and what not to do.
Ill see if I can find the link to the match later, unless some kind generous soul beats me to it.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
13 Aug 2014, 09:08 AM
#29
Posts: 9
I think it fits the OKW to have a KT as a non-doctrinal units. Unlike many of the doctrinal units, the KT wasn't that uncommon. Besides, it's not like you can't beat the damn thing. The beast is so slow that you can hit it with off-map artillery if you do it right, and even one hit with the Riflemen's AT grenade makes it even slower. Park a T34 behind it if you like, with that turret rotation it'll never get you. And then you simply bombard the hell out of it. Or any other tactic. The KT is certainly not overpowered.
13 Aug 2014, 12:17 PM
#30
Posts: 692
No, the only condition is that all the trucks must have been built at some point during the game. So even if you loose them all, you can still build the KT afterwards.
@OP Thanks for the laugh, claiming you don`t have anything against the unit itself and then complaining how OP it is for the entire post without giving any reasons why it should actually be doctrinal (besides the OP thing obviously).
BTW if look at the cost of the tech buildings plus KT and account for the crippled fuel income of OKW the total cost of getting a KT is 636 fuel. That gives you pretty big window of opportunity for crippling the OKW player and preparing yourself. Just saying.
I said I don't have a problem with the unit itself. I have a problem with the fact that all OKW have access to it, and so you will always see multiple KTs come out in team games, which skews their late-game advantage even further to their favor
I don't have a problem with the Ace, Elefant or Jagdtiger, because they are doctrinal, and you are giving something up to get them.
13 Aug 2014, 12:28 PM
#31
Posts: 1701
I said I don't have a problem with the unit itself. I have a problem with the fact that all OKW have access to it, and so you will always see multiple KTs come out in team games, which skews their late-game advantage even further to their favor
I don't have a problem with the Ace, Elefant or Jagdtiger, because they are doctrinal, and you are giving something up to get them.
You are also giving something up to get a King Tygur, no vehicle in early-mid game.
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13 Aug 2014, 12:34 PM
#32
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
The game already has rampant problems with doctrinal call-ins allowing skipping tech, and you want to make the KT able to do so as well? This would only exacerbate the problem.
Also, KTs are not OP. They have ridiculous tech requirements (as they should) in an already fuel-starved faction. They still die to antitank fire and with their turret slow as it is, exploiting the KT turret rotation is a legitimate tactic.
There is nothing wrong with having strong, expensive units as a non-doctrinal choice in a faction like OKW.
Also, KTs are not OP. They have ridiculous tech requirements (as they should) in an already fuel-starved faction. They still die to antitank fire and with their turret slow as it is, exploiting the KT turret rotation is a legitimate tactic.
There is nothing wrong with having strong, expensive units as a non-doctrinal choice in a faction like OKW.
13 Aug 2014, 12:37 PM
#33
Posts: 431
I said I don't have a problem with the unit itself. I have a problem with the fact that all OKW have access to it, and so you will always see multiple KTs come out in team games, which skews their late-game advantage even further to their favor
I don't have a problem with the Ace, Elefant or Jagdtiger, because they are doctrinal, and you are giving something up to get them.
Multiple KTs? Yeah, because they are so cheap. If they are going for "fast" KT, simply counter their inf in early game and keep this into lategame. Cool. They have a nice tank but no vet inf anymore -> under constant harrasment VP victory for Allies. And if you see KT you don't have to fear that they will get another tank soon.
If this is too difficult for you, get Jackson, Bazookas + 1 other Tank. The KT has the slowest turret rotation speed and the lowest mobillity. I've seen even Hans getting owned by this combo. Just drive around with one tank and your inf(which has hopefully some vet) while the Jackson shoots from far. The KT has not that much armour as you think.
OR if this is still too skilled for you: just build OP ISU. Counters everything. Can't get destroyed by anything. So there plenty of ways to destroy your "Noobmobile". Yes, even in late game!
13 Aug 2014, 12:39 PM
#34
Posts: 65
USF Players ..... if you let a OKW build all trucks and let them 720mp and 260 Fuel .... u might've done some mistakes earlier? There's a huge gap where he can only rely on shreks and rakettens, punish him with HE!
And even if, you have the strongest TD in the game with just 120 Fuel use it goddamnit.......
Btw: If the KT gets doctrinal, which price should he get? 400 Fuel? Cause all Trucks + Kt are that expensive, and that's too low for you?
And even if, you have the strongest TD in the game with just 120 Fuel use it goddamnit.......
Btw: If the KT gets doctrinal, which price should he get? 400 Fuel? Cause all Trucks + Kt are that expensive, and that's too low for you?
13 Aug 2014, 12:41 PM
#35
Posts: 467
Being able to have any tanks without teching is far more gamebreaking than KT will ever be. T34/85, M4C, E8 & Tiger etc I'm looking at you.
13 Aug 2014, 13:21 PM
#36
Posts: 1026
You are also giving something up to get a King Tygur, no vehicle in early-mid game.
Not really. You're giving up panther and expensive vehicles, but in team games where allies can't close the game early on you're not infrequently looking at 40+ minute slogs. There's plenty of fuel to go around. These are the kind of games where you also see multiple tigers from a Wehr player.
13 Aug 2014, 13:39 PM
#37
Posts: 665
If the KT comes out and you have little to no proper counters, you probably lost the game earlier already. I know that the only times I've had one used against me with success was when I got outplayed.
I mean, it's an absurd fuel sink, and getting it means less (or no) OKW vehicles to deal with. If you have driven off your opponent by the time it arrives, a screen of AT guns with proper AT to support it (Jackson, E8, SU-85s, Soviet doctrinal heavies), you can usually just force it to retreat for repairs all game long. It's harder for US forces, however.
In team games it's harder to take care of, but you also have more AT options and you know it's coming. Adjust.
I mean, it's an absurd fuel sink, and getting it means less (or no) OKW vehicles to deal with. If you have driven off your opponent by the time it arrives, a screen of AT guns with proper AT to support it (Jackson, E8, SU-85s, Soviet doctrinal heavies), you can usually just force it to retreat for repairs all game long. It's harder for US forces, however.
In team games it's harder to take care of, but you also have more AT options and you know it's coming. Adjust.
13 Aug 2014, 14:20 PM
#38
Posts: 1130
If the KT comes out and you have little to no proper counters, you probably lost the game earlier already. I know that the only times I've had one used against me with success was when I got outplayed.
I mean, it's an absurd fuel sink, and getting it means less (or no) OKW vehicles to deal with. If you have driven off your opponent by the time it arrives, a screen of AT guns with proper AT to support it (Jackson, E8, SU-85s, Soviet doctrinal heavies), you can usually just force it to retreat for repairs all game long. It's harder for US forces, however.
In team games it's harder to take care of, but you also have more AT options and you know it's coming. Adjust.
Indeed! If you see the frontpage you see mine KT being destroyed by partisans. yes he was lucky and yes i lost the kt because totally didnt expect this to happen. That i managed to get the KT out was because i was completely outplaying him and i won in the end.
horrida flamma bella
13 Aug 2014, 22:15 PM
#39
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
I love the King Tiger. By far the best piece of armor in the game. It shouldn't be doctrinal because this game is all about super units now. More super units = super fun. Ammirite?
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
13 Aug 2014, 22:19 PM
#40
Posts: 2819
That is a non-turreted doctrinal unit. Big difference.
It has actually a turret.
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
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