These 2 units recieved supposedly an 'equal ' nerf with the result that 1 unit is extinct and another still breaks games.So to put it simply either elfant must be made relevant again..or tit for tat its corresponding abomination the ISU-152 needs to be nerfed out of the game..since the argument was both these units were breaking the game.
Why partial treatment..why one stayed powerful while other went extinct?Demand answers.
ISU and Elefant
8 Aug 2014, 04:42 AM
#1
Posts: 1705
8 Aug 2014, 09:13 AM
#2
Posts: 978
For lack of a better option, I voted for the Elefant buff.
Keeping everything as it is (option 3), will keep the Elefant out of the game. I oppose that.
I think the Elefant should get the same range as the Jagdtiger, which is 90 range iirc. I agree that the Elefant serves no purpose any longer with 70 range.
The purpose of balance adjustments isn´t to nerf units out of the game (option 1), so that shouldn´t be done with the ISU-152.
If however only the Elefant gets buffs (option 2) then we are back to the old meta: ISU-152 vs. Elefant. The ISU-152 should get some reload time increase. That will nerf its performance versus tanks at least.
Keeping everything as it is (option 3), will keep the Elefant out of the game. I oppose that.
I think the Elefant should get the same range as the Jagdtiger, which is 90 range iirc. I agree that the Elefant serves no purpose any longer with 70 range.
The purpose of balance adjustments isn´t to nerf units out of the game (option 1), so that shouldn´t be done with the ISU-152.
If however only the Elefant gets buffs (option 2) then we are back to the old meta: ISU-152 vs. Elefant. The ISU-152 should get some reload time increase. That will nerf its performance versus tanks at least.
8 Aug 2014, 09:16 AM
#3
Posts: 1705
I would give elefant a small speed boost and a cost decrease to 200 fuel.
Jackson with turret and 60 range does 240 dmg for 125 fuel..and elefant..lol.
Jackson with turret and 60 range does 240 dmg for 125 fuel..and elefant..lol.
8 Aug 2014, 09:26 AM
#4
Posts: 228
stop crying about isu man if they nerf this tank... is the only allied tank who can deal with yours ...
8 Aug 2014, 09:26 AM
#5
Posts: 390
Permanently Bannedausterlitz you forget the superior range and the massive amount of armor the elefant has 
8 Aug 2014, 09:37 AM
#7
Posts: 183
These 2 units recieved supposedly an 'equal ' nerf with the result that 1 unit is extinct and another still breaks games.So to put it simply either elfant must be made relevant again..or tit for tat its corresponding abomination the ISU-152 needs to be nerfed out of the game..since the argument was both these units were breaking the game.
Why partial treatment..why one stayed powerful while other went extinct?Demand answers.
U have no good choices in your Asking.
Why should ISU be nerfed? Elefant should be nerfed.
8 Aug 2014, 09:38 AM
#8
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
I've always felt that the -30 range nerf was too much for the elephant. It should get some of its range back to make it a viable unit again.
Weirdly enough the OKW get an elephant that has more range, more AoE, and can shoot through buildings. All while costing the same as a Wehrmacht elephant.
Weirdly enough the OKW get an elephant that has more range, more AoE, and can shoot through buildings. All while costing the same as a Wehrmacht elephant.
8 Aug 2014, 09:44 AM
#9
Posts: 987
I've always felt that the -30 range nerf was too much for the elephant. It should get some of its range back to make it a viable unit again.
Weirdly enough the OKW get an elephant that has more range, more AoE, and can shoot through buildings. All while costing the same as a Wehrmacht elephant.
I dunno, 290 (380 for OKW) is more than the elefant. But yes, definitely weird that Ostheer doesn't get something like this when OKW has it. Weird and sad
Let's keep it constructive
8 Aug 2014, 09:59 AM
#10
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
I dunno, 290 (380 for OKW) is more than the elefant. But yes, definitely weird that Ostheer doesn't get something like this when OKW has it. Weird and sad
Ah you are right, I was confused with the King Tigers fuel cost. The Jagdtiger is indeed more expensive.
8 Aug 2014, 10:04 AM
#11
Posts: 11
to equalize isu and ele problem, the ele must have a chance to wipe any tank. ANY! ISU wipes infantry, elephant wipes tanks - sounds legit to me.
NO? you don't wanna your is2 to be one shotted? so do i with my triple vet infantry.
I think isu at least must have abillity to switch ammo - armour piercing or high explosive, like sherman tank with cooldown.
NO? you don't wanna your is2 to be one shotted? so do i with my triple vet infantry.
I think isu at least must have abillity to switch ammo - armour piercing or high explosive, like sherman tank with cooldown.
8 Aug 2014, 10:05 AM
#12
Posts: 1701
Elefant is currently extinct, it should be called Mammoth 
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
8 Aug 2014, 10:28 AM
#13
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
austerlitz you forget the superior range and the massive amount of armor the elefant has
What is the range of Elefant and what is the range of ISU?
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
8 Aug 2014, 10:31 AM
#14
2 Posts: 83
to equalize isu and ele problem, the ele must have a chance to wipe any tank. ANY! ISU wipes infantry, elephant wipes tanks - sounds legit to me.
NO? you don't wanna your is2 to be one shotted? so do i with my triple vet infantry.
I think isu at least must have abillity to switch ammo - armour piercing or high explosive, like sherman tank with cooldown.
One shotting an IS2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>One shotting even 5 vet infantry
So no that would be ridiculous, a range = to the jagdtiger could be best the solution.
Also off topic but Pak 43 needs a range increase.
8 Aug 2014, 10:40 AM
#15
Posts: 11
One shotting an IS2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>One shotting even 5 vet infantry
So no that would be ridiculous, a range = to the jagdtiger could be best the solution.
Also off topic but Pak 43 needs a range increase.
feel the pain? Why your is2, which poped out at 25 min is more expensive than squads of infantry, which were preserved that 25 mins of game?
isu also deals damage to tanks.
My suggetstion was kind of a joke. I just wanted to show how it would look like from ostheer perspective if we would try to equalize isu and ele.
8 Aug 2014, 12:17 PM
#16
Posts: 1705
U have no good choices in your Asking.
Why should ISU be nerfed? Elefant should be nerfed.
Yeah sure man,go right ahead.I think 350 fuel would be proper for elefant.
8 Aug 2014, 12:20 PM
#17
Posts: 1705
In the next episode-Tiger tank vs T-70 and why Tiger tank is inferior.
*disclaimer: all units advantages that can be ignored, WILL be ignored so the comparison can make tiger look worse
Both are fine as they are, buffs are absolutely last thing any of them need.
Elephant still generates no-go zone for armor, use it as heavier SU-85 you love to complain on so much.
First sentence typical katitof fart.Comparing light tank with heavy tank,and me 2 tank destroyers....
Fine for u.Fine buff..no.Then justify why elefant is extinct and isu is still gamebreaker.
If buff is lasty thing elfant needs isu needs to be nerfed into teh groudn as well...if one goes,other must go too.Soviet fanboys like u need to need to see both sides of the picture here.Not that anyone takes u seriously anyway.Ur soviet version of lolcake.
8 Aug 2014, 12:25 PM
#18
Posts: 1705
austerlitz you forget the superior range and the massive amount of armor the elefant has
10 plus range and armor,health for 260 fuel and 700 plus manpower compared to jackson.
U brought up armor..let me ask u what about its speed?
What about its turret.Lack of turret is BIGGEST disadvantage ever.A single bazooka squad can kill elefant given time.Zis alone can do it.Compare that to isu.And don't say u have to cover it....because with 70 range and its speed it always has to get quite close.An AT gun with 60 range easily engage 70 range elefant.Elefant doesn't have speed to retreat properly.
ISu its perfectly legit to wipe out at guns and shreck squads but elfant..oh no.
If one goes..other has to go.
8 Aug 2014, 12:38 PM
#19
Posts: 22
I don't think any units should be nerfed into oblivion because it was overperforming before.
The elephant should either get a slightly better range than the ISU or the ISU get nerfed so it can be tackle without the specific need of a jagdtiger or an elephant, which restrain your play style and makes for a super boring meta. The second option seems better.
Cruzz had an interesting idea of adding a 1 sec setup time to the ISU.
It could alternatively switch between HE and AP round
or just reload really slowly (a sturmtiger reload would be too much of a nerf imo)
This unit is also map dependant, I don't have a problem with the ISU in 2v2 on Vaux farmland or such map, but it's just too good on minsk pocket and the like.
I also hate the way that thing can counter a pak 43 with veterancy, or with the offmap ability the ISU commanders gets. But that's another topic entirely.
TLDR: So yeah, just fix balance one way or another. As long as we don't have another ISU/Elephant meta from pre-wfa.
The elephant should either get a slightly better range than the ISU or the ISU get nerfed so it can be tackle without the specific need of a jagdtiger or an elephant, which restrain your play style and makes for a super boring meta. The second option seems better.
Cruzz had an interesting idea of adding a 1 sec setup time to the ISU.
It could alternatively switch between HE and AP round
or just reload really slowly (a sturmtiger reload would be too much of a nerf imo)
This unit is also map dependant, I don't have a problem with the ISU in 2v2 on Vaux farmland or such map, but it's just too good on minsk pocket and the like.
I also hate the way that thing can counter a pak 43 with veterancy, or with the offmap ability the ISU commanders gets. But that's another topic entirely.
TLDR: So yeah, just fix balance one way or another. As long as we don't have another ISU/Elephant meta from pre-wfa.
8 Aug 2014, 12:38 PM
#20
Posts: 177
Permanently BannedI want to have a new option:
"Buff Elefant back into the game and bring ISU to non-OP level"
Elefant currently is UP and ISU still OP...but its not like I warned that exactly that would happen if you were going to nerf their range or anything...
"Buff Elefant back into the game and bring ISU to non-OP level"
Elefant currently is UP and ISU still OP...but its not like I warned that exactly that would happen if you were going to nerf their range or anything...
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