That is a pretty old video Jaigen. I might be wrong but I believe the maxim setup and/or turn time has been increased since then.
of course it is same goes for vids that elchino posted.
miragefla's Wehrmacht/Ostheer Balance Ideas and Suggestions
11 Aug 2014, 10:15 AM
#41
Posts: 1130
of course it is same goes for vids that elchino posted.
horrida flamma bella
11 Aug 2014, 10:19 AM
#42
Posts: 752
That is a pretty old video Jaigen. I might be wrong but I believe the maxim setup and/or turn time has been increased since then.
I dont think it has, iirc.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
11 Aug 2014, 10:35 AM
#43
Posts: 656
This made me curious enough to look it up. The video was made October 2013. Since then the maxim took two nerfs to rotation speed to address the issue.
December 10, 2013
Soviet Maxim: Rotation Speed Reduced from 225 degree/sec to 180 degree/sec
July 8, 2014
M1919 Maxim Heavy Machine Gun Team: Reduce Rotation Speed reduced from 180 degrees per second to 120 degrees per second
Anyway, enough derailment. I missed the point of Jaigen's video in the first place. Back to balance.
December 10, 2013
Soviet Maxim: Rotation Speed Reduced from 225 degree/sec to 180 degree/sec
July 8, 2014
M1919 Maxim Heavy Machine Gun Team: Reduce Rotation Speed reduced from 180 degrees per second to 120 degrees per second
Anyway, enough derailment. I missed the point of Jaigen's video in the first place. Back to balance.
11 Aug 2014, 12:35 PM
#44
Posts: 1705
This made me curious enough to look it up. The video was made October 2013. Since then the maxim took two nerfs to rotation speed to address the issue.
December 10, 2013
Soviet Maxim: Rotation Speed Reduced from 225 degree/sec to 180 degree/sec
July 8, 2014
M1919 Maxim Heavy Machine Gun Team: Reduce Rotation Speed reduced from 180 degrees per second to 120 degrees per second
Anyway, enough derailment. I missed the point of Jaigen's video in the first place. Back to balance.
And still spam continues unabated..nerfs were totally ineffective.
11 Aug 2014, 14:32 PM
#47
Posts: 665
Either the automatch is very kind to me, or I'm playing in an alternate reality, or my definition of ''widespread'' is not the same as yours. Since option 2 is probably out, and I otherwise face cheese strats from time to time (Volks blob, rifles blob, double sniper, Stug E spam, ect.), I'm gonna go with option 3 and say Maximspam is way more rare than some people try to make others believe. It's a bad strat used against bad players by bad players.
11 Aug 2014, 15:57 PM
#48
Posts: 1705
Either the automatch is very kind to me, or I'm playing in an alternate reality, or my definition of ''widespread'' is not the same as yours. Since option 2 is probably out, and I otherwise face cheese strats from time to time (Volks blob, rifles blob, double sniper, Stug E spam, ect.), I'm gonna go with option 3 and say Maximspam is way more rare than some people try to make others believe. It's a bad strat used against bad players by bad players.
In 1 vs 1 sure,above that very high density and relic recognizes it.They have the stats and know best.Maxim spam doesn't mean only maxims,but 3-5 maxims as primary unit and 1-2 cons as backup into shocks and zis usually.Instead of the hmg being the support weapon it acts as the main infantry unit..and with 6 members multiple maxims in buildings is just awful.Its used by majority of soviet players unless they are spamming snipers or in rare case m3.
11 Aug 2014, 16:21 PM
#49
Posts: 971
In 1 vs 1 sure,above that very high density and relic recognizes it.They have the stats and know best.Maxim spam doesn't mean only maxims,but 3-5 maxims as primary unit and 1-2 cons as backup into shocks and zis usually.Instead of the hmg being the support weapon it acts as the main infantry unit..and with 6 members multiple maxims in buildings is just awful.Its used by majority of soviet players unless they are spamming snipers or in rare case m3.
Cmon! 5 maxims?? And you can't win as Ostheer against a dude who did 5 maxims??
Have you ever heard about smoke?
11 Aug 2014, 16:35 PM
#50
Posts: 752
Cmon! 5 maxims?? And you can't win as Ostheer against a dude who did 5 maxims??
Have you ever heard about smoke?
So you are trying to argue only Doctrinals can respond to core units?
Interesting, if misguided, perspective tbh.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
11 Aug 2014, 16:37 PM
#51
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
So you are trying to argue only Doctrinals can respond to core units?
Interesting, if misguided, perspective tbh.
T1 mortars are doctrinal?
That is new.
What next? Maybe snipers that outrange and outrun* maxims also are not a counter?
*have fun chasing sniper with maxim
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
11 Aug 2014, 16:42 PM
#52
Posts: 752
So how many Mortars then, with how much MP left for actual infantry into assault for effect through the smoke, while the Maxims just resetup fast for overlapping fields of fire?
How many Snipers?
*HF chasing Maxim with Snipers.
Since when do Sniper outrun Maxims btw?
Doesnt all Infantry have the same base movement speed?
How many Snipers?
*HF chasing Maxim with Snipers.
Since when do Sniper outrun Maxims btw?
Doesnt all Infantry have the same base movement speed?
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
11 Aug 2014, 16:47 PM
#53
Posts: 665
In 1 vs 1 sure,above that very high density and relic recognizes it.They have the stats and know best.Maxim spam doesn't mean only maxims,but 3-5 maxims as primary unit and 1-2 cons as backup into shocks and zis usually.Instead of the hmg being the support weapon it acts as the main infantry unit..and with 6 members multiple maxims in buildings is just awful.Its used by majority of soviet players unless they are spamming snipers or in rare case m3.
5 Maxims and 2 cons? AND shocks too? Why haven't you already stomped the crap outta him with mortars, snipers and vehicles? By that time you could be on the eve of T3 even. And ZiS alone sure as hell won't stop a well microed P4 or Ostwind.
And I play 1v1 and 2v2 equally, even a bit more 2v2. It is most definitely not used by any majority of Soviet players that I either face or ally with. T2 is more popular than T1, sure, but the BO is most often 2 or 3x cons 2x maxim ZiS then guards or shocks. And it's not like I'm playing at godly skill levels either.
Relic said they are looking into it, nothing else. This might indicate a huge Maxim nerfbat, or it might just indicate a role change, or simply nothing.
11 Aug 2014, 16:49 PM
#54
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
So how many Mortars then, with how much MP left for actual infantry into assault for effect through the smoke, while the Maxims just resetup fast for overlapping fields of fire?
How many Snipers?
*HF chasing Maxim with Snipers.
Since when do Sniper outrun Maxims btw?
Doesnt all Infantry have the same base movement speed?
2 mortars or 2 snipers.
Nothing more is needed.
When you have LMGs you can a-move with grens, gunner will always be sniped.
Its no rocket science and its effective since the maxim spam exists.
Being stuck in denial about snipers or mortars and refusal to make them doesn't make them any less of a hardcounter.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
11 Aug 2014, 16:52 PM
#55
Posts: 752
Katitof:
Dont Ost LMGs still have a setup timer? Doesnt that make A-move redundant?
Whats to prevent the Maxim simply redeploying further back while another Maxim suppresses the A-Moving LMG?
And what if there is a Con spotting or overlapping Maxim? Doesnt Maxims suppression negate an LMG?
Also, even if the gunner is focused on Maxim, if the unit is setup, it takes very little time to re-man the weapon?
You seem to be confusing it with the retreat gunner kill, which causes a delay in retreat and subjects them to more incoming fire. Surely that is not relevant in this point?
You are therefore suggesting that to counter a Maxim requires a Mortar+Smoke+Gren+LMG?
That seems reasonable, balanced and fair to you?
And you didnt answer how you explain your claim of Sniper outrunning Maxim?
Dont Ost LMGs still have a setup timer? Doesnt that make A-move redundant?
Whats to prevent the Maxim simply redeploying further back while another Maxim suppresses the A-Moving LMG?
And what if there is a Con spotting or overlapping Maxim? Doesnt Maxims suppression negate an LMG?
Also, even if the gunner is focused on Maxim, if the unit is setup, it takes very little time to re-man the weapon?
You seem to be confusing it with the retreat gunner kill, which causes a delay in retreat and subjects them to more incoming fire. Surely that is not relevant in this point?
You are therefore suggesting that to counter a Maxim requires a Mortar+Smoke+Gren+LMG?
That seems reasonable, balanced and fair to you?
And you didnt answer how you explain your claim of Sniper outrunning Maxim?
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
11 Aug 2014, 17:12 PM
#56
Posts: 971
So you are trying to argue only Doctrinals can respond to core units?
Interesting, if misguided, perspective tbh.
That answer confirms my guess that you have never used smoke to charge a HMG...
One mortar smoke barrage is enough to surpass a maxim. Two mortars barraging the area are enough to stop any maxim spam.
You are therefore suggesting that to counter a Maxim requires a Mortar+Smoke+Gren+LMG
They are telling you that 2 mortars are enough to stop any kind of Maxim spam.
If your enemy has done 5-6 maxims as you are complaining, this is a lot less manpower for you. I don't know what are you complaining about.
The Gren+LMG it's supposed to be a core unit in your army, you are going to build it independently if your enemy is maxim-spamming or no.
And even if that wasn't the case, yes, countering HMG at early game usually requires at least two units. Or can you flank just with one?
11 Aug 2014, 17:12 PM
#57
Posts: 381
2 mortars or 2 snipers.
Nothing more is needed.
When you have LMGs you can a-move with grens, gunner will always be sniped.
Its no rocket science and its effective since the maxim spam exists.
Being stuck in denial about snipers or mortars and refusal to make them doesn't make them any less of a hardcounter.
most people are arguing the maxim vs okw. dont know why you are going off about wehr counters. o wait, i know, you DONT want to talk about maxim vs okw, it will lead to the maxim needing nerfs.
11 Aug 2014, 17:15 PM
#58
Posts: 971
most people are arguing the maxim vs okw. dont know why you are going off about wehr counters. o wait, i know, you DONT want to talk about maxim vs okw, it will lead to the maxim needing nerfs.
It was austerlitz who started talking about maxim spam being OP against Ostheer, specially in team games.
Therefore people suggested easy counters that Ostheer have.
11 Aug 2014, 17:21 PM
#59
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
Can we get back on-topic before I have to call a mod? This is about Ostheer balance changes and what could be changed about the faction, mainly on its underperforming T4 and certain T2 units as well as a few issues these units face.
I think I'll throw another issue out there
Stuka AT Support: Needs to act like the P-47 where it only goes after armour in the target area, not the infantry unless absolutely no armour is in the area. Sure it can suppress and kill one-two members off, but that's not why we call it in, and it already has its troubles like the P-47 which is tracking and hitting moving units so it should at least hit the intended target(s).
I think I'll throw another issue out there
Stuka AT Support: Needs to act like the P-47 where it only goes after armour in the target area, not the infantry unless absolutely no armour is in the area. Sure it can suppress and kill one-two members off, but that's not why we call it in, and it already has its troubles like the P-47 which is tracking and hitting moving units so it should at least hit the intended target(s).
11 Aug 2014, 17:46 PM
#60
Posts: 752
Why is Greeb answering questions directed to Katitof?
Just curious.
Sorry mirage. Its a shame the thread is getting derailed by people who dont actually even play the faction.
Just curious.
Sorry mirage. Its a shame the thread is getting derailed by people who dont actually even play the faction.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
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