Who else loves the ISU these days? :D

Here's a harsh dose of reality for all of you:

SUPERTANKS ARE ALL OVERPOWERED

ISU, Elefant was for all of vCOH2, Tiger Ace (probably the biggest joke in the game's history)


You can all keep deluding yourself with your obvious faction biases, but the King Tiger and Jagd from COH1 were all scrub weapons that threw the entire game's balance out of the window. They allowed any idiot to pull a win out of their ass. Tiger 1 and Pershing were fine - strong, but not absurd.

This game is not Command and Conquer. Superweapons/units have no place in this game in my opinion, so if you don't like it for soviets, keep in mind the fact that the Germans have more of them.

You know it's true, so stop pretending like one side is magically more noble than the other. Everyone has had their shit instagibbed by a ridiculous tank or unit. I swear to god the delusion is amazing. It just stops all intelligent discussion, it's like american politics ffs.

1) This isn't COH1.
2) Tiger Ace has been nerfed. At least it doesn't instagib infantry. And for what it's worth, I never bought the commander because I still find it game breaking.
2) The elefant and the JT counter tanks only, unlike the ISU which 3-4 shots Panthers AND instagibs infantry.

1) This isn't COH1.
2) Tiger Ace has been nerfed. At least it doesn't instagib infantry. And for what it's worth, I never bought the commander because I still find it game breaking.
2) The elefant and the JT counter tanks only, unlike the ISU which 3-4 shots Panthers AND instagibs infantry.

1) - Irrelevant, same concepts exist.

2) Don't care, it was an example. It is quite capable of gibbing squads. Commendable.

3) They are better against armor. They shred tanks amazingly and sov/us infantry AT is pathetic compared to pschrecks. These tanks are godlike on maps that make fragile TDs hard to use.


Look, they are all absurd units and allow inferior players to win. Just swallow the pill and realize that none of them are good for gameplay. I am being very fair here.

1) - Irrelevant, same concepts exist.

2) Don't care, it was an example. It is quite capable of gibbing squads. Commendable.

3) They are better against armor. They shred tanks amazingly and sov/us infantry AT is pathetic compared to pschrecks. These tanks are godlike on maps that make fragile TDs hard to use.


Look, they are all absurd units and allow inferior players to win. Just swallow the pill and realize that none of them are good for gameplay. I am being very fair here.

Does the ISU-152 cost you all remaining fuel and 25% of your manpower? Does it have 75 range and the ability to spot to the near full extent of the range by itself? Does it's AOE basically insta kill any infantry? Does it combine full AI with full AT?

The answer to all of those questions is no.

The Tiger Ace is totally fine for what it does: a final death blow to an already beaten opponent or an all in against an impending loss.

The ISU-152 completely reverses the course of games due to its absurd effectiveness vs everything. Surely even someone as dense as yourself can see that there is overwhelming evidence that it needs a look?

Late game those vet 3 infantry are very important, and having them wiped instantly from across the screen is just BS. I would say the same of any unit but this one has almost 0 counters so it's a serious problem for gameplay.

Another big issue is they made elfant extinct.
For me ISU is most annoying because it has same range as pak 43.Which basically makes it lose vs isu.Pak 43 can't reliably do it and elfant is useless..after that ur pretty fucked.I've had success with 4 panzer 4 swarms.Panzer 4s are good in a critical mass of 4.

Another big issue is they made elfant extinct.
For me ISU is most annoying because it has same range as pak 43.Which basically makes it lose vs isu.Pak 43 can't reliably do it and elfant is useless..after that ur pretty fucked.I've had success with 4 panzer 4 swarms.Panzer 4s are good in a critical mass of 4.

Pak43 outranges isu by 10. However my pak43 works for the first couple of shots anad then they use the bombing strike that is present in every isu doc for some reason.

Does the ISU-152 cost you all remaining fuel and 25% of your manpower? Does it have 75 range and the ability to spot to the near full extent of the range by itself? Does it's AOE basically insta kill any infantry? Does it combine full AI with full AT?

The answer to all of those questions is no.

The Tiger Ace is totally fine for what it does: a final death blow to an already beaten opponent or an all in against an impending loss.

The ISU-152 completely reverses the course of games due to its absurd effectiveness vs everything. Surely even someone as dense as yourself can see that there is overwhelming evidence that it needs a look?

Late game those vet 3 infantry are very important, and having them wiped instantly from across the screen is just BS. I would say the same of any unit but this one has almost 0 counters so it's a serious problem for gameplay.

What? The answer is "no"? Did you make a fool out of yourself and then have the nerve to call me "dense"?

The Tiger Ace now is not the same as it was costwise, but it still is capable of one shotting a squad and so is the KT. The concept at the time was idiotic when first released. Notice how I said "in history" before your blood pressure shot through the roof.

And yes, I said ALL of the "supertanks" are absurd and never did I defend any one. You are a waste of time. I am trying to take the middleground and be reasonable here. Some supertanks are turretless, some are better against tanks or infantry, some have more HP/Armor than others. Not everything is so god damned black and white.

You have to see the heavy tanks in relation to the other.

Jagdtiger? Sick AT
Kingtiger? Sick AT, armor and good AI
ISU? Sick AI, good AT
(and go on...)

Its good, but there are good counters.

Agreed, but then what are the units that you cap or hold teritorry with? Tanks? I don't think so. So "sick AT" may be not so disturbing as "sick AI" in a VP game.

Endgame situation: let's say OKW player has a ST one panther and 3 volks squads. Soviet player has 2 T34s and 9 cons squads. ST and panther will kill the T34s whithout losing the panther (let's say). The 9 cons squad and T34s will kill meanwhile the 3 volks squads. At this moment, OKW player will have a ST and a Panther and the Soviet player 5-6 cons squads. Do you think he will care about the ST or event about the Panther? They will cap the VPs and game over.

That is what ISU is doing. Whiping the squads whithout letting any chance, he eliminates the ability of oponent to cap and hold teritory and VPs.

What is the use of an army with super tanks with "sick AT abilities" but with no infantry on the battlefield? Au contraire, an army made just from infantry units and AT guns can still be efficient and win.

I love it because it's the only thing that hard-counters blobs with about as much effort as blobbing. None of that lay a trap with democharges and mines with 3 machineguns and 2 flankers on the retreat with a knife ready to sacrifice the goat and a tub to bath in the blood for luck bullshit. They blob up all their army, they rely entirely on the unstoppable blob, meet the fucking blob eater delux!

I think the ISU and the other super heavies have always been poorly implemented. Now, the Sturmtiger, that is a well designed unit. Massive power, massive drawbacks. If it were up to me, the ISU would work like the ST, except it'd be MUCH better (because it costs more). Basically a death cannon but with a really long reload time or something else like that to make it finicky.

And in my fantasy world the Elefant would get its range back, and then also a draw back, like, I dunno, it randomly gets engine criticals just for moving, or it can be decrewed with a molotov.

I love it because it's the only thing that hard-counters blobs with about as much effort as blobbing.

To call it a blob counter would be inaccurate... better put, it's a squad preservation counter and veterancy counter, all for the same effort as blobbing. Throw in mines and guards and it's a 'all except JT and Elefant' counter.

It's not so much a

blob eater delux!

as a squad eater deluxe.

That's true, but when blobbing is the only thing I face anymore, it sort of justifies having the ISU as it is. The only time I don't see blobbing is when I'm playing vs AI. It might be bullshit, but so is the roflblob that destroys everything in it's path. Unless blobbing is changed, the ISU probably shouldn't be either.

Yep, saw the same thing, did the same thing often. And had it done to me, I am not using it anymore, unless I am playing dudes I don't like. Call it nonsense, but hey I am oldfashioned this way. ISU literally is the answer to all the woes. You're fucked, no map presence no nothing? ISU. Tigers? ISU. Infblobs? ISU. PIVs? ISU. Meh, what where they thinking.
As for Sib, I might add that its kinda sad to see players of his calibre resort to this sort of cheap stuff to troll random people.

Lol. I don't resort to anything to troll anyone. If you have a problem with my play style, you're more than welcome to challenge me in a 1v1 or 2v2 and dish out all the "disappointing" comments you have then but I would refrain from bashing anyone based on the simple premise that a unit was used in the game. By your definition, I am most likely disappointed in you for using X unit - that goes for more than half of the community, shame on you.

Saw Siberian do it on stream and it made my blood boil. Here are 2 Axis players who actually put an effort into outplaying their opponent and ISU's come along and wipe everything. I've had it done to me several times in 2v2s, and it's infuriating how complete noobs turn games in their favor by abusing a ridiculous unit. I hope Relic is considering a nerf to this abomination.

I am also amused by the guys who want to sit on a forum and give me stick for using ISU-152s, Snipers, whatever you wish to complain about. Any heavy tank, with a very few exceptions, is over performing and removes any incentive to tech for the most part. That's the way the game is, don't complain to me about the game's issues, I've been hampering on about these for a while. All heavy tanks and call-ins need to be brought in line, they all need CP increases as the bare minimum, as far as I am concerned. For those complaining about the ISU-152: please start a topic on the Tiger, Tiger Ace, King Tiger, Stug E and Shermans.

Agreed, it's a vet-squad destroyer and needs a fix.

Don't be surprised by Sib and Ivan using it, they're in it for the points, not the fun. And Ivan's gotta save time so he can extend his Gif collection of those hollywood guys he loves.

It really really really needs to be toned down. Nothing should be one-shotting vetted squads like that except arty and arty fires every few minutes, not every few seconds.

Still the biggest unresolved balance issue if you ask me. Unless you have the Ele/JT or an absolutely overwhelming VP lead/map advantage, the ISU still singlehandedly turns the game, bit like the Tiger ace of old.

I'm sure that's more important than being able to see what your opponent is going to do from the fog of war.

How about this:

-Change Supertanks to be built from T4 per specific Commanders.
OR
-Make all vehicle callins to be built from buildings per specific Commander.

Pretty radical change that presents a few problems, but also fixes a few.

Thoughts?

So as not to derail, I started a thread on it:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/21824/suggestion-attach-call-ins-to-buildingstier-again.

Edited to add: Dont hate on pros/casters using what are considered OP units or strats.
They publically showcase the game, and it helps inform and point out balance problems and puts pressure on Relic to change them.

Agreed, it's a vet-squad destroyer and needs a fix.

Don't be surprised by Sib and Ivan using it, they're in it for the points, not the fun. And Ivan's gotta save time so he can extend his Gif collection of those hollywood guys he loves.

It really really really needs to be toned down. Nothing should be one-shotting vetted squads like that except arty and arty fires every few minutes, not every few seconds.

You should be a miner in the salt mines, I am sure I get more enjoyment out of my games than you do, I think my stream proves that.

On topic, all of these units need tweaking, you're stating the obvious and to the wrong people. I am aware of all the issues heavy tanks and call-ins pose, I am sure you do too.

Agreed, it's a vet-squad destroyer and needs a fix.

Don't be surprised by Sib and Ivan using it, they're in it for the points, not the fun. And Ivan's gotta save time so he can extend his Gif collection of those hollywood guys he loves.

, you're a bad boy.... Anyway, if it's in the game, no one can be blamed for using it. It's hard to stay on top, and you have to do what you have to do in order to achieve it.

It really really really needs to be toned down. Nothing should be one-shotting vetted squads like that except arty and arty fires every few minutes, not every few seconds.

Agreed. Even a heavy tank destroyer doesn't one shot tanks => you can run with that tank if you see your health sudenly dropped to 40-50%. Something nasty must be shooting at it.

With the range nerf (and focus sight aswell I think) plus AI buff of the Tiger I'd say it's on the line with other heavy call ins. It's so much easier to sneak in a PaK stun round on the ISU now. The heavies just seem to be designed this way in the game, allowing you to crawl back in to the game no matter how much shit you've lost during the game.

, you're a bad boy.... Anyway, if it's in the game, no one can be blamed for using it. It's hard to stay on top, and you have to do what you have to do in order to achieve it.



Agreed. Even a heavy tank destroyer doesn't one shot tanks => you can run with that tank if you see your health sudenly dropped to 40-50%. Something nasty must be shooting at it.

Yes it does. The bane of my SU-76M spam are Elefants and Jagdtigers, because I have no warning until one of my vet 2-3 SU-76s explodes from a shot from a mile away from a unit I had no idea existed..

God damn it Sib, why are you so toxic, abusing OP things like the Su76?