Soft anti blob needed? How CoH handles small arms and blobs.

If your opponent is blobbing, he's extremely vulnerable to suppression, indirect fire, Aoe attacks (flamers, flak guns) and all that bullshit.

Adding a penalty for putting units near each other is the scrubbiest thing this side of scrubsville.


Late game blobs are tough, but you have more potent weapons to counter them. Offmap artillery, onmap artillery (Stuka/Katyusha/Panzerwerfer) and heavy tanks with huge aoe attacks. (Brummbarr, sturmtiger, IS-2, Sherma/m8a1)

Blobbing is already punished violently by many different units. This exact idea has been discussed before and it is absolutely not necessary.

A lone MG can suppress a blob, it can't destroy it. Manage your expectations.

Please disregard Romeo, he is a known blobber and most likely doesn't want to learn how to play tactically.

On topic, Blobbing will hopefully be addressed with the LMG nerf. I think they should make it like the Ostheer LMG, can only fire while standing still, also i think it should be more of a mid range weapon with huge accuracy nerf on long range to make it more realistic.

While I disagree that Romeo is a blobber (He's actually a good player), I kinda agree with OP on a slight received accuracy modifier for blobs. Nothing huge but just something to dissuade the OKW and Ami blobs. Soviets don't seem to blob much, they have their own other type of cheeses

And how about BAR can fire on the move but has an accuracy penalty? I think any lmg should be harder to fire while walking.

No fucking shit. I address this in the opening for lines of my post. This makes me wonder if you read the post or looked at the title, maybe skimmed it, and replied. For your convenience:

...

I disagree not only with your proposed fix, but also with your supporting arguments.

I don't expect indirect fire units such as mortars and support guns to deter or stop blobs, I expect them to bleed my opponent's manpower slowly over the course of the game.

I think anti-blob units do deter blobbing. Blobbing around while under stuka, katyusha, or sturmtiger fire is suicide.

I don't think purchasing an anti-blob unit such as a sturmtiger or stuka inherently leaves you vulnerable to armor. Why shouldn't you purchase units to counter what you're facing? Adapting to your opponent's strategy is a crucial part of the game.

I understand that your suggestion applies only to small arms, and as a result what you're effectively asking is for almost every unit in the game to counter blobs. Machine guns, obers in cover, and artillery alike.

So I'm not flippantly dismissing your ideas, and I'm not trying to be condescending. I just think this is an incorrect fix to a problem that doesn't exist.

Something that people are not taking into account is:

Lategame high dps units (2 and that´s not TOO MUCH of a "blob") can focus fire from the FRONT an MG and keep killing the gunner who is gonna take ages to reman the weapon.

DECREASE aiming time and increase remanning speed.

I disagree not only with your proposed fix, but also with your supporting arguments.

I don't expect indirect fire units such as mortars and support guns to deter or stop blobs, I expect them to bleed my opponent's manpower slowly over the course of the game.

I think anti-blob units do deter blobbing. Blobbing around while under stuka, katyusha, or sturmtiger fire is suicide.

I don't think purchasing an anti-blob unit such as a sturmtiger or stuka inherently leaves you vulnerable to armor. Why shouldn't you purchase units to counter what you're facing? Adapting to your opponent's strategy is a crucial part of the game.

I understand that your suggestion applies only to small arms, and as a result what you're effectively asking is for almost every unit in the game to counter blobs. Machine guns, obers in cover, and artillery alike.

So I'm not flippantly dismissing your ideas, and I'm not trying to be condescending. I just think this is an incorrect fix to a problem that doesn't exist.

let me rephrase this into something shorter.

"If they Nerf my Blobs, how am i gonna win anymore!!"

... (Quoted to indicate reply, I just realized I've been away from forums so long I forgot how to reply to a person.)

I replied this to another guy over on the reddit post. I think I may have overstated the effect I see the change having.

I don't think it's nearly as sweeping of a change as you interpret it. Maybe I came off as sounding like I want to wipe out several squads simultaneously. You know how models adjacent to the target model can take damage from MGs? That, but applied to models from adjacent squads (not sure if in) and granted to *all* infantry (rifles, grens, scripts, etc. - This is not in the game to my understanding). I feel like this is a soft change that won't force people to play differently. It will just *adjust* the rank the match make at.

* With balancing of course.

I don't think purchasing an anti-blob unit such as a sturmtiger or stuka inherently leaves you vulnerable to armor. Why shouldn't you purchase units to counter what you're facing? Adapting to your opponent's strategy is a crucial part of the game.

Ahem...did I miss the point were Ostheer T4 got viable?

It's fine the way it is, you all looking for the change are really looking for something like Men of War.

CoH2 is a WW2 themed RTS; it's not supposed to have much verisimilitude. It's somewhere between games like Star Craft and more simulation oriented stuff like MoW. Just enjoy the niche that it's in, and check out other games (MoW) if that's more your thing. Both approaches have their advantages.

I used to complain about 30 dudes rushing an MG from the front and just DPSing it down, but then I realized that gamey though that might be, it's appropriate for where CoH2 sits on the "gamey-realistic" spectrum. Games that focus more on realism can be annoying in their own ways.

Me and my partner started going USF + Soviet where we get an ISU-152. Funny thing is, our opponents seem to have no idea what to do without their blobs.

Short of an ISU-152 though, I really dunno.

@ Marco

We can do without pejoratives like 'moronic'. The Balance forum has to up its game and post politely....

KK?

Pardon me, you're right, but I'm inclined to stand by my statement that blobbing is a thoughtless way to play and it feels like despite adequate counters to it, the majority of the play base can't seem to get away from it.
It needs to somehow be ironed out. We're playing a world war 2 game, where fire and movement are key, this is not 1914 mass assaults.

I play a lot of 2v2s these days and what I notice is that often if my teammate is US, I see roughly early-mid game this pretty significant blob roaming around the field. Except fairly quickly it stops running because it walks into a machine gun and retreats back to base uselessly. This pattern continues until mid-late game, I look over and see the US player has maybe a couple of tanks and maybe 2 squads, possibly not even that.

It strikes me that the problem with blobs is that a lot of players need to up their game, learn and understand that blobs are not the be all end all and that many players can and will counter these blobs with the resources available. Perhaps I haven't adequately faced vet US rifle blobs or something.

This is verging off topic, so I might make a seperate thread. My apologies for appearing to attack players, but honestly, in this case I'm inclined to feel its up to them and not relic to sort themselves out. Learn the counters, use the stuff that you wouldn't normally use and you can often crush blobs for few casualties of your own.

For Blobbers, play a better game then you are currently, for those facing blobs, don't blob in return. Combined arms is your friend.

I really like your suggestions, thefonz. Blobbing has become very rampant since the new armies. I'd love for grouped troops to receive more accuracy.

There was a antiblob concept for Automatic Weapons implemented in COH1 of which i dont know if it is in COH2 as well.

The weapon statistic was called incremented accuracy. It worked like this: say a MG42 had an Acuracy of 20% against a single Target, then it had 20% *x^y against the same target if "y" additional soldiers where close to the target - x would be the value for incremental accuracy with typical values of around 1.05 for automatic weapons.

So in an example with 10 target soldiers in a blob, and a incermental-accuracy value of 1.05 the 20% mg-accuracy would go up to 20%*9^1.05 = 31%

does anybody know if this mechanic is in COH2?

ww2 was all about blobbing up. Just look at barbarossa, the soviets were too dispersed and the germans just blobbed and encircled the dispersed soviet forces. Eventually, the soviets understood how to blob properly and started it doing even better, they just blobbed up massive amounts of everything and just blobbed. Germans also blobbed, but they didin't learn to blob properly, that's why they lost the war.

Soviets even developed fake blobs. They tricked the germans that their blob was in another place when launching bagration, making the germans relocate their blob elsewhere, then, the soviets unleashed their full disgusting a-move blob full onto army group center and because germans had no blob there, they got blobbed up and completely annihilated. And it was gg wp, nobody even cried about soviets being easy mode.

Battle of Kursk was simply the soviets blobbing massive amounts of AT gun spam and a-move maxims and mined the shit out of everything. And used su-152 to oneshot everything from afar, germans halted their offensive in one week. Then one soviet commander picked soviet industry tactics and spammed the shit out of t-34/76s and just a-moved them, germans didin't really have enough tanks to a-move because all of them were worn out and needing repairs because they were a-moved too hard. The blob was big, soviets lost alot of tanks, but it didin't really matter, because they had replacements because they used the fucking P2W soviet industry commander.


After all, if the germans would just kept going with their ONE blob and attack Stalingrad, they probaly would of won, but no, they had to divide the blob into two. And they failed because soviets massed a huge blob and then blobbed the shit out of them.


USA was blobby as shit also, ever seen saving private ryan? Yeah, just pure no skill blobbing, no tactics needed, just blob and win, fucking no skill easy mode WW2.

i agree, bloobing is sick in current meta. There are not enough countmeasures. i dont like starcraft 2 because of this, now in CoH2 we have also balls of death.

lol, idk what to say to this thread

I wish I fought blobs more often. Someone spamming one unit type is going to get owned

lol, idk what to say to this thread

I wish I fought blobs more often. Someone spamming one unit type is going to get owned

I'm seeing more mixed blobs coming from the OKW (sturm/volk with shrek... eventually obers replace/supplant sturms for crazy long range AI pwnage). Amer blobs are naturally all rifles and the odd officer or para. For wher, pgren blobs have never gone out of style, they just seem more effective since WFA. I don't see too many soviet blobs, the maxim spam strat seems popular.

Honestly, maybe blobs aren't the problem. If long range damage is nerfed across the board blobs lose the ability to insta kill MG gunners (so MGs have a chance to at least suppress more often) and simply using attack move won't wipe any individual squads in three seconds.

Shit, 2x obers/1919paras is enough to wipe squads in seconds from max range.

One of the best things in Blitzkrieg Mod was the Blob-Counter. If you stick too many units together, they will receive more bullets. It is easier for an MG to fire in a blob than on single squads or soldiers. That would be a nice addition. Sticking together more than 3 Squads should be punished in higher received_accuracy or received_damage

Honestly, maybe blobs aren't the problem. If long range damage is nerfed across the board blobs lose the ability to insta kill MG gunners (so MGs have a chance to at least suppress more often) and simply using attack move won't wipe any individual squads in three seconds.

Shit, 2x obers/1919paras is enough to wipe squads in seconds from max range.

Long range weapons are a little too strong right now. Relic has stated that they're looking into this, along with soviet team weapons and elite riflemen. Since then it seems like they got a little distracted with rocket artillery, but I'd expect a change in the near future.

It seems to me that the allies get all the best anti-blob units when they are the side most guilty of blobbing. I would like to see MG damage upped slightly vs suppressed squads, and then ramped up again vs pinned squads. Imo they just don't punish infantry enough for just sitting in front, slowly crawling forward to nade or simply just picking off the mg while suppressed..

I'd like to see axis get access to demo charges as well. It's annoying that both allied factions get them while neither axis faction does. Make it one of each or everyone.