OKW sniper counter

The infanterie gun works pretty well I think. I have used it multiple times and it's killed multiple sov snipers (maybe I'm just lucky). When it fires directly at the unit the chances of killing it are better than when it lobs.

With that said OKW does have a hard time versus t1 spam. OKW is just a hard faction in general, your units are precious. If you lose a puma, stuka, etc... You have been set back pretty far. Preserving units is tantamount to victory. OKW rewards preservation the most of any faction (according to me). That's why it's hard to face a cheese strat like 3 snipers where your squads could be wiped in a firefight.

Inf gun can work but it's a soft counter and can be dodged fairly easily. It's also T2 which is most important. That's quite a long time of map control for soviets and manpower bleed for okw while you build one.

If he goes rifle command that means he wont have either at guns or light armor. Exploit that. If he went 2 snipers, you should flat out, have more shit than he does, exploit that. If he went rifle command, you have map control and mobility, exploit that.

Instead of trying to only hard counter a unit, xploit its weaknesses or the weaknesses it comes with.

He can spam guards since usually he won't take a large mp hit for first 5-10 minute of the game...

If he goes rifle command that means he wont have either at guns or light armor. Exploit that. If he went 2 snipers, you should flat out, have more shit than he does, exploit that. If he went rifle command, you have map control and mobility, exploit that.

Instead of trying to only hard counter a unit, xploit its weaknesses or the weaknesses it comes with.

What this guy said. I was about to add it, no AT for him, rush Flaktrack or anything else armored you prefer. For the M3 you have the Racketen.

Why do you guys whant to have an easy win unit that would garante you a victory against his units? it's an RTS not rock paper cisor. Form a strategie with your units, you have a good selection. If he has 2 snipers you can vastly outnumber him with 3 volks squads. No way in hell he's getting trough that. If he runs away, you have over 600MP running away... PUSH.

The soviet sniper was built to be less of a good killing machine and thus make him a better recon and making him more resilient to fulfill this role.

Get Kubel to vet 1. Activate detection ability.

Beware the M3.

What this guy said. I was about to add it, no AT for him, rush Flaktrack or anything else armored you prefer.

no AT? guards always go with snipers unless the player is an idiot. button = dead flak track. i think a flak ht is the worst possible suggestion.

If he has 2 snipers you can vastly outnumber him with 3 volks squads. No way in hell he's getting trough that. If he runs away, you have over 600MP running away... PUSH.

2 snipers vs 3 volks.. i wouldnt call that vastly outnumbering him. thats 1 extra squad. also, what he lacks in numbers, he will make up for in bleeding your mp. while youre reinforcing those volks, hes floating for guard spam.

besides, your strategy doesnt exactly make sense to me. are you suggesting using your 3 volks together in one area or spreading them out? it sounds like youre suggesting spread them out, in which case you will be forced to retreat after the snipers take a shot or two. then the snipers move on to the next squad. to really take advantage of your numbers, you have to stick close together and rush the snipers, which means youre not out capping the soviet player. you cant have it both ways.

For the M3 you have the Racketen.

as for the raketen, you either wait until you see an m3, in which case youre already getting pushed back, or you build it preemptively. if you build it preemptively and they dont build an m3, you just lost your 1 squad advantage.

The soviet sniper was built to be less of a good killing machine and thus make him a better recon and making him more resilient to fulfill this role.

again im going to have to disagree. the soviet sniper is not "less of a good killing machine". it is exactly as good at killing as the german sniper when they are fighting the correct size squads. it takes a german sniper the same amount of time to kill 6 men as it does for a soviet sniper to kill 4 men. the major differences are, the soviet sniper is twice as durable, has sprint, and gets much much better after you build 2. when is the last time you saw a competent german player build 2 snipers? theres a reason its never done

Hä? You want to bait snipers into mines using a Kübel or do I get you all wrong? (which is entirely possible)

No, bait the M3.


SU:
Barton cheese: CE (initial) T1 Sniper M3 Con Sniper Sniper >>> Guards...



OKW:
-SP (initial)
-Volks
-(see what building he has inside his base) volks (why would you want another SP if he goes T1)
-Volks probably. At this point you can either know (with Truck) if he has gone M3-Sniper or both
-If he has gone for the M3+Flamer theres no minedetector for a long time. That´s why i´m saying put mines.
Or just go for the Panzershreck.

At this point is 1 SP + 3 Volks vs 1 CE + 1 Sniper + 1 M3 + Conscript
If another sniper is arriving that means you have 360mp for either unit you want.

What now:
-Panzerfusiliers? Or JLI/Falls behind retreat path
-1/2 Flak HT (which i think it´s get hardcounter by a kitting M3+Guards)
-Puma
-Luch

You dont need the truck to see the tech - just look at the base in the FOW. The truck takes a good deal of damage from the M3 btw, risky business. Mines, sure, workable - but a gambit. If he doesnt run over it your Kübel is dead, and your Schreck will come later.

Limit snipers to 1 per faction. Reduce acceleration on M3. T1 soviets sorted.

M3 spam is soo annoying in that they can chase down retreating squads and turbo out of getting the final blow. I think acceleration nerf might help fix this.

Snipers, should be a support unit not a unit to base a strategy around. If there is no reliable counter to something then it should be limited to prevent "spam".

My 2 cents.

no AT? guards always go with snipers unless the player is an idiot. button = dead flak track. i think a flak ht is the worst possible suggestion.

I was told doctrinal units were out of the equation for the OKW, but now you told me not for the Soviets? We are rewriting the rules here. I must be an idiot also to prefer shock troops.

You have a Senior Strategist badge, and you only swear by counters. Use your bloody head and make some strategie, there's more to this game than just "counter" it's not just rock paper scisor.

If we only go by counters will just keep throwing the counter of the last counter at the other's face. Each map will be different and so will each situation, use it to your advantage. I gave you a bunch of units that works, now it's up to you to make them work together.

here's an exemple of a generic plan:
If he is hording 800MP in the same spot i'd call in some artillerie and start cutting off his other points and probably flank him at some point. You adapt to the situation, and in this situation we have a very not so mobile and fragile blob. Flanking and dodging it are your best bets in this situation. You'll also have other units that will add up into the equation and so will he.

“No Battle Plan Survives Contact With the Enemy”
German military strategist Helmuth von Moltke


edit: after reading trough the forum, i think this mentality of "counter only" is what led to blobing (it's just a theory) but as Dane said in on of his latest cast : "all battles seems to revolve around blobing and this is getting boring" or something around those lines.
It's like everyone is trying to cram all the counters togethers to make sure to counter every other counter of the opposing team.

this whole game is about counters... whether they be soft counters or hard counters, its still about countering. just like any RTS, knowing your opponents units and how to counter them is essential. that is strategy, so i have no idea what point youre trying to make by picking apart the idea of counters.

the coh franchise is different from other rts's in that things like positioning or suppression can make a huge difference in the outcome of battles, but that will only help so much. no amount of "strategy" will make a pioneer beat shocks on their own. the reason is, shocks hard counter pios. some units simply cannot beat other units.

anyways, back to the topic, theres a big difference between saying okw need a doctrinal unit to counter snipers. one, okw may not have that doctrine equipped and two, well placed buildings are essential for both of your doctrinal counters. no buildings make your JLI and fall surprises impossible.

the other difference is guards are a choice for the soviets. the soviet chooses t1 and guards and okw is forced to respond. the soviet is dictating the play, not the other way around.

if you go shocks with t1, i can see why you might think any vehicle is a counter to a sniper build. shocks and snipers both have the same strengths (AI) and weaknesses (AT). personally i love seeing t1 and shocks because its an incredibly short sighted and easy to counter build. im curious what your creative strategy to counter 222's is with that build.

It is only getting worse in 2v2. They either get maxims and at gun support from their mate or the rifle blob with zooks which you can not counter with the luchs ( which is quite good vs this cheese in 1v1).
After that they just stall into lategame with isu. Either you have a JTiger by then or you lost.

this whole game is about counters... whether they be soft counters or hard counters, its still about countering. just like any RTS, knowing your opponents units and how to counter them is essential. that is strategy, so i have no idea what point youre trying to make by picking apart the idea of counters.

the coh franchise is different from other rts's in that things like positioning or suppression can make a huge difference in the outcome of battles, but that will only help so much. no amount of "strategy" will make a pioneer beat shocks on their own. the reason is, shocks hard counter pios. some units simply cannot beat other units.

anyways, back to the topic, theres a big difference between saying okw need a doctrinal unit to counter snipers. one, okw may not have that doctrine equipped and two, well placed buildings are essential for both of your doctrinal counters. no buildings make your JLI and fall surprises impossible.

the other difference is guards are a choice for the soviets. the soviet chooses t1 and guards and okw is forced to respond. the soviet is dictating the play, not the other way around.

if you go shocks with t1, i can see why you might think any vehicle is a counter to a sniper build. shocks and snipers both have the same strengths (AI) and weaknesses (AT). personally i love seeing t1 and shocks because its an incredibly short sighted and easy to counter build. im curious what your creative strategy to counter 222's is with that build.

Ahahah an interesting personal attack, i genuinly laugthed. Let's start dancing, but i won't use the same moves as you do.

In this case, artillerie would counter this as said earlier.
Flanking sturm pios.
blobs of volks (but keep them spreaded a bit to avoid grenades) if you like the frontal single unit assault.
Keeping the guards busy with an armored unit they can button while you move up. This one is very theorical.
Capping the rest of the map and dodging the blob to force it to spread and then pick it out one by one (this is an expensive, slow and low model count blob) divide and conquer!
Ubersoldaten LMG wreck the sniper in a second.

Find one that you like, they'll work in different situations. Try some other units combinations ... it's all really depending on the situation. No build "x" unit to beat it will get you very far, it's made of 2 long range and expensive AI units and one Doctrinal elite unit with small AT capabilities.

p.s. Yes i like T1 and shocks, i got tired of T2 and whanted to try something new. It's pretty fun to use but hard. The sniper is great to recon for the assault and pick off MGs while the M3 is good to flank MG if there is no gren around and keep alot of momentum. Get creative, and you might find some interesting combos and strats.

Edit: soviets have a very low adaptability especially if they are going T1. You were talking about being forced to react, well now force them to while they can't.

Obers do wreck snipers. Thats if u can get close enough as the sniper has more range and will no doubt target the obers first. I guess if the Soviet is dumb enough not to have spotters u could do this......

Obers take at least 8 mins to come out also.

Shocks + T1 only works if u can utilize T1 well at the start and dominate which isn't too hard. But its easily taken out by a couple of 222's or a couple of pumas.

I think you should play abit more before you comment anymore.

Obers do wreck snipers. Thats if u can get close enough as the sniper has more range and will no doubt target the obers first. I guess if the Soviet is dumb enough not to have spotters u could do this......

Obers take at least 8 mins to come out also.

Shocks + T1 only works if u can utilize T1 well at the start and dominate which isn't too hard. But its easily taken out by a couple of 222's or a couple of pumas.

I think you should play abit more before you comment anymore.

Holycow, you whant to add a spotter to that? how big with that blob become? Ok ok, i raise the bets and add... an Leih. That should screw their sniper. Do you raise or pass?

That's something I miss from the old CoH1.
There always was something you could do to counter a unit.
Snipers? -> Motorbike/Jeep.
In CoH2 it's pretty often "It MIGHT work but you have to sacrifice some troops and it is by far no hardcounter".

Dude, if you were able to counter a sniper with a motorbike/jeep past the 5 minute mark, I don't think we were playing the same game. Light vehicles were soft counters or punishers of poor micro at best.

I'm sorry, the implication that the sniper game in vCOH was balance is hilarious to me.

I can once again only try to make you guys take a look at my post again.
While there is no hard counter to snipers in the OKW arsenal smart play can deal with t1 . Soviet t1 is not broken and okw can actually deal with it , even though it might be hard. If i face soviet t1 again tomorrow ill hand you a replay . Also for an alternate strat refere to Barton vs Cruzz . you can see there is room to work with . that game was decided by sloppy play ( happend on both sides , which made it an entertaining game ) , yet you can learn alot from it

Worst thing about the Sovietsiper... Sprint. many people forget it, but of a Sovietplayer uses it, it's almost impossible to kill the Snipers.


Btw, why again is the M3 a vehicle killing machine? was it intended against a 222 semicounter? why did they add this absurd penetration in the first place, I can't remember.