Ostheer are broken

Speaking from experience these are the current problems that the ostheer army is facing :

- Faust is to weak and has a very short range.
- Grens do not scale as well as riflemen late game.
- Pgs are useless. They have too little armour and are easily shredded by BARs. Also shreks should be bought separately at 60 muni each.
- Their reinforcement cost is too high considering shocks own pgs and they cost less to reinforce.
- Easy 8s are too powerful for thier cost. They need a cost increase(440 manpower and 150 fuel) as well as a CP increase (9CP).
- Jacks are too powerful. They destroy panthers in 2 shots.
- The vehicle crew should be for all the factions and not for the US only. What is so special about them??
- Scout car armour is too thin even at vet 3. A con At nade brings it down to nearly 0 health.
- P4s need a dmg and penetration buff since they get owned by nearly any tank.
- Tigers need some more armor as they die too easily.
- All ostheer tanks should get a sight range increase as well as damage.
- Reduce teching fuel cost. It is too much fuel.
- FIX ALL THE OSTHEER COMMANDERS especially the elite troops doctrine. Vetting troops for 25 fuel is not feasible. It should only cost manpower.
- NERF the rifle company big time. It is way too OP atm. Getting vet 2 rifles 3 mins into the game is imba.
- And last but not least give the ostheer an excellent commander because all of them are crap.
Russians and US have great commanders(Airborne,Rifle,Shock frontline tactics and all the t34/85 ones.)

I'm pretty sure this is a learn to play issue.

I'm pretty sure this is a learn to play issue.

Ah man...


If you disagree, explain why. Just glibly writing "learn to play" is pointless and will only antagonize people. If you genuinely believe he needs to improve his gameplay - tell the guy how. Suggest things from him to try. [bPlease don't just dismiss people with an insult. M

I rarely use the term. But Red Beard is literally complaining about everything that the Ostheer / Wehrmacht have. I'm pretty sure that deserves my response.

The few things that I can agree with are nerfing Rifle Company Commander and buffing the Panzergrenadiers. Regular Grenadiers are still beasts with the LMG42 upgrade.

Well, tbh, I shouldn't be throwing stones out of my glass house... I'll get off my high horse.


I'd say if you've tried to help him before and your help has been ignored, then just ignore them in future.

I kinda think you're right. With time as he learns the game better, he'll see that these issues are not actually issues or not actually so bad.

It's just there's already enough people like katitof, frikadelle...



To OP:

The best advice I can give you is to play the opposite armies. You'll learn a lot about the strengths and weaknesses of Ostheer when you see other players using them against you. Really, it's very useful!

Speaking from experience these are the current problems that the ostheer army is facing :

Well, you need to work on your experience then because:

- Faust is to weak and has a very short range.

Faust is strongest of all engine damage abilities with exactly the same cost and range as all others, yet it have superior penetration and is used against inferior armor.

- Grens do not scale as well as riflemen late game.

They scale exactly just as good because of LMGs and high accuracy, which makes them deadly AI squad for mere 240mp.

- Pgs are useless. They have too little armour and are easily shredded by BARs. Also shreks should be bought separately at 60 muni each.

They are not shock troops.
They are not meant to be used as shock troops.
They have much more effective range then shock troops.
We had single shreck in beta, it was batshit OP.

- Their reinforcement cost is too high considering shocks own pgs and they cost less to reinforce.

So 3x43(129) is more then 5x32(160). Ok.

- Easy 8s are too powerful for thier cost. They need a cost increase(440 manpower and 150 fuel) as well as a CP increase (9CP).

Meh, probably.

- Jacks are too powerful. They destroy panthers in 2 shots.

In this case, elephant one shots everything.

- The vehicle crew should be for all the factions and not for the US only. What is so special about them??

Blitz, bunkers, LMG upgrade, snipers and MGs and T2 reinforcing vehicles should be for all factions, not only wehr. What is so special about them?
(asymetrical balance)

- Scout car armour is too thin even at vet 3. A con At nade brings it down to nearly 0 health.

Its a scout car, not a scout tank. AT nade takes 50% of its HP, because its a car, not a tank.

- P4s need a dmg and penetration buff since they get owned by nearly any tank.

P4 beats 100% of armor of its tier.

- Tigers need some more armor as they die too easily.

AT weapons are good against tanks. Don't send lone tanks against massed AT weapons, doesn't matter how big the tank is.

- All ostheer tanks should get a sight range increase as well as damage.

Give one single logical reason that would be healthy for balanace and wouldn't result in +30-40fuel cost for them?

- Reduce teching fuel cost. It is too much fuel.

Wehr T3 is about as expensive as soviet one. Wehr T4 is more expensive, because its more powerful.

- FIX ALL THE OSTHEER COMMANDERS especially the elite troops doctrine. Vetting troops for 25 fuel is not feasible. It should only cost manpower.

LOL

- NERF the rifle company big time. It is way too OP atm. Getting vet 2 rifles 3 mins into the game is imba.

So vet2 rifles at 3 min is imba, but vet3 grens right out of the bat are balanced?

- And last but not least give the ostheer an excellent commander because all of them are crap.
Russians and US have great commanders(Airborne,Rifle,Shock frontline tactics and all the t34/85 ones.)

Lightning war.
Spearhead.
Elite troops.
Joined operations.
Mechanized support.
Mechanized Assault.
Luftwaffe supply.

Pick one.

Thanks Katitof, I was going to write something similar but you have saved me a lot of work.

Well, you need to work on your experience then because:


Faust is strongest of all engine damage abilities with exactly the same cost and range as all others, yet it have superior penetration and is used against inferior armor.


They scale exactly just as good because of LMGs and high accuracy, which makes them deadly AI squad for mere 240mp.


They are not shock troops.
They are not meant to be used as shock troops.
They have much more effective range then shock troops.
We had single shreck in beta, it was batshit OP.



So 3x43(129) is more then 5x32(160). Ok.


Meh, probably.


In this case, elephant one shots everything.


Blitz, bunkers, LMG upgrade, snipers and MGs and T2 reinforcing vehicles should be for all factions, not only wehr. What is so special about them?
(asymetrical balance)



Its a scout car, not a scout tank. AT nade takes 50% of its HP, because its a car, not a tank.


P4 beats 100% of armor of its tier.


AT weapons are good against tanks. Don't send lone tanks against massed AT weapons, doesn't matter how big the tank is.



Give one single logical reason that would be healthy for balanace and wouldn't result in +30-40fuel cost for them?


Wehr T3 is about as expensive as soviet one. Wehr T4 is more expensive, because its more powerful.



LOL


So vet2 rifles at 3 min is imba, but vet3 grens right out of the bat are balanced?


Lightning war.
Spearhead.
Elite troops.
Joined operations.
Mechanized Assault.
Luftwaffe supply.

Pick one.

Well written and I agree with almost everything.

PGs in cover are still pretty good. Though I reckon they could do with a slight armor/health buff? You can't just use them like you used to before March Deployment i.e. charge across the open. Keep them in cover and deal good damage.

However the OPs complaint against Easy 8s is justified. The tank is too good for its cost. It needs adjustment.

- Easy 8s are too powerful for thier cost. They need a cost increase(440 manpower and 150 fuel) as well as a CP increase (9CP).

Only relevant thing mentioned. The mentioned cost, as well as perhaps a 10 CP requirement, is the most agreeable idea. (Arent they already 9 CP?)

There is T4 and the panther, but for they arent mentioned here...

Red Beard, Ost is at present the weakest of all factions - at least as far as 1v1 and 2v2 is concerned. That being said, ill join the choir here and point out that the margin of its inferiority is not nearly as large as you make it out to be, and most of the points you raise appear exaggerated or ill informed. For example, the problem of Grens vis-a-vis riflemen is not their lack of scaleability - but rather on the contrary their early game fragility. As Katitof pointed out correctly, if you manage to build up vet and add an LMG, Grens eventually come into their own. They will still lose to high vet rifles with double BARs or LMGs, but then again, the latter represent a greater investment so I see no real issue with that.
The single greatest problem of Ostheer vs US is in my opinion still early, aggressive HT play to which there is no reliable counter. If you wanna see the real balance issues in this particular matchup, (Wehr vs US) watch the recent Alienware SNF broadcast. Even though the HT has since been somewhat nerfed, the fundamental issues still persist.

not that i agree with the op, but i disagree with you on some things katitof

Faust is strongest of all engine damage abilities with exactly the same cost and range as all others, yet it have superior penetration and is used against inferior armor.

in terms of damage and chance to pen, yes. in terms of chance to lose your squad during the animation, its the worst.

They scale exactly just as good because of LMGs and high accuracy, which makes them deadly AI squad for mere 240mp.

how do you quantify "exactly just as good"? they do get lmgs, but rifles can get 2 bars or 2 m1919s. while it does cost more, they will scale much better into late game and your lmg grens will quickly be out matched. even with one m1919, your lmg grens are already beat.

Wehr T3 is about as expensive as soviet one. Wehr T4 is more expensive, because its more powerful.

debatable

So vet2 rifles at 3 min is imba, but vet3 grens right out of the bat are balanced?

it doesnt take 3 minutes to get a vet 2 rifle. it also only costs 20 extra mp. not sure how you can compare that to spending fuel on a grenadier squad.

Lightning war.
Spearhead.
Elite troops.
Joined operations.
Mechanized Assault.
Luftwaffe supply.

Pick one.

tiger.
tiger.
tiger ace.
howitzer (ha) and pak 43 (haa).
ass grens, pgren ht, stug e, tiger.
fuel drops in team games.

mechanized is a great commander, but i do think most of the german commanders are unimpressive now. 4 of the 6 you listed are used primarily for the tiger because germans pretty much need tigers at this point. panthers are a waste and p4s dont cut it. pak43 nerfs makes joint ops pretty bad now too. luftwaffe is only good in team games so you can feed fuel to your teammates.

ill repeat, i dont think ostheer are broken. but theyre certainly are some issues with them right now.

Disagree with everything except for Pgrens (only sort of useful with Panzerschrecks).

Joint ops is almost entirely useless in 1v1, and questionable at best even in 2v2, as is Luftwaffe supply. Ye, you need a Tiger - you really do.

Vetting troops for 25 fuel is not feasible. It should only cost manpower.

Honestly, I have a bad losing streak atm too. I almost lost every game of the last 30 I played but there's one thing I have to say about that suggestion:

Well, Rifle Company is still E.Z mod for USF.
Ostheer T4 is still suicide to go for.
About the commanders, atm Ostheer must go for a Tiger or lose but it's not because the ostheer commander pool sucks.

To OP:
Dug in with T1 + T2 supported by a Stug-e and wait for the Tiger. That's your best bet vs USF. Against Sov you can try something else.

Gotta say I like the PAK 43 though.
Placed behind a nice house and protected well it can change a game.
Especially after the Katjusha nerf.

Honestly, I have a bad losing streak atm too. I almost lost every game of the last 30 I played but...

LOL.

Good lord, this has gotta be a troll. Surely people aren't this deluded? If not, I would recommended playing the other factions more than twice.

P4 beats 100% of armor of its tier.

I agree with everything except this one, P4 can lose to both­ T34/76 and Sherman.

I agree with everything except this one, P4 can lose to both­ T34/76 and Sherman.

IMO the P4 will rather lose against the Sherman.
T34 is a duel with an open winner.
T34/85 will laugh about P4.