Katyusha seriously need a nerf

@Bugalov

Havent you seen the error in your flawed logic of obsessing over playercards after I mentioned that the Ost Mortar got a stealth buff and you went on the tirade of how I wouldnt know because I only have more games with Ost then you but not as much as I did with Soviets? And yet IT DID get a buff...

Can you knock that crap off already

Not agreeing with the post just the playercard crap.

Why is it crap? Explain please.

The point I am making is he plays only soviets. Here the complaint is about a Soviet unit. He is saying it's ok and that he likes it. He hasn't experienced the flipside so he cannot be making an objective argument.

I'm not "obsessing" over player cards. I'm saying that when someone plays one side and says "my side is fine!" in reply to other players (including high-level multi-faction players), I call bullshit.


My logic is rock solid. A person who stands to benefit from imbalance of any kind will defend the imbalance. Therefore a player who plays exclusively one faction will defend that factions advantages. As this player did.

I agree, it's impossible to be objective if you only play one faction. That's why I generally avoid discussing US units since I know I would be biased in their favor, unless they're blatantly overpowered like the AA halftrack used to be.

Why is it crap? Explain please.

The point I am making is he plays only soviets. Here the complaint is about a Soviet unit. He is saying it's ok and that he likes it. He hasn't experienced the flipside so he cannot be making an objective argument.

I'm not "obsessing" over player cards. I'm saying that when someone plays one side and says "my side is fine!" in reply to other players (including high-level multi-faction players), I call bullshit.


My logic is rock solid. A person who stands to benefit from imbalance of any kind will defend the imbalance. Therefore a player who plays exclusively one faction will defend that factions advantages. As this player did.

Except thats not always the case. I love OKW. Yet I identified that Obers were over performing. I love Soviets yet I think the Kat is over performing.

Its crap that you should cut out because its at least 30% of what you post. Every other thread I see of yours and every chance you seem to get. Like I said I dont agree with his post but I am sick of seeing that sort of bile. But I will not go any further to derail this thread.

This crap is beyong salvage. Relic there is a need for a hot fix now! We don't have time to wait till this broken unit is all right again.
Last game I killed 3 of them with Puma flanks and my teammate (random) killed another two or some and Soviet player was able to spam them effortlessly one after another. He was a terrible player and the only unit that brought him into the game was Katyusha! Nothing else. From mid stage of the game there wasn't anything else than Katyusha, Maxims and ZiS. No Cons as they were killed earlier.
I don't think there is anymore data needed to call it.

If you want to keep this as effective as it is right now at least make it cost more and reload time on pair with Stuka.

Replay attached:

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  0

  VS

  PBerg xSOLxSIGNATURAx SR

  tykon Oz

  Katyusha BS

  by: OZtheWiZARD map: Minsk Pocket

  1

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Common Relic!

You really think the only reason you lost that game was because of the Kat's?

This crap is beyong salvage. Relic there is a need for a hot fix now! We don't have time to wait till this broken unit is all right again.
Last game I killed 3 of them with Puma flanks and my teammate (random) killed another two or some and Soviet player was able to spam them effortlessly one after another. He was a terrible player and the only unit that brought him into the game was Katyusha! Nothing else. From mid stage of the game there wasn't anything else than Katyusha, Maxims and ZiS. No Cons as they were killed earlier.
I don't think there is anymore data needed to call it.

If you want to keep this as effective as it is right now at least make it cost more and reload time on pair with Stuka.

Replay attached:

•  
  

  0

  VS

  PBerg xSOLxSIGNATURAx SR

  tykon Oz

  Katyusha BS

  by: OZtheWiZARD map: Minsk Pocket

  1

  -

Common Relic!

Clearly Oz there are a few things you dont understand

1.) They were obviously Pros. The first thing Pros due is spam Caches

2.) They are from Wisconsin because all that CHEESE! Maxims? Check. Shock Spam? Check. Zis Spam? check. Mine spam? Check.

3.) Just because a large portion of the game you had Map control and were beating the piss out of their units until wave after wave of Kats came doesnt not at all mean the Kats were a huge part in winning that game.

Clearly the well over 100 Kills the Kat Spammer got has nothing to do with it being over powered I think all the Fanboys will agree with me here. If you just did (insert defense of this unit hear) you could have won.

I watched that replay.

Your ally blobbed so hard, what the hell were they supposed to do? You put your truck up way too close to middle and they punished you for it.

You even had them and probably could have won at one point I think.

Those two (the most he ever had) racked up so many kills because you both resorted to blobbing, and even the katyushas were hardly enough to stop them because your infantry crushed everything else.

And still, they barely won that game because you threw infantry at the middle for a really long time.

Your ally blobbed too hard at the start and it prompted the katyushas. Did they kick ass? Yes, but you did kill them several times until you stopped building anything else but infantry. If that was against two USF you would have destroyed them I bet.

I watched that replay.

Your ally blobbed so hard, what the hell were they supposed to do? You put your truck up way too close to middle and they punished you for it.

You even had them and probably could have won at one point I think.

Those two (the most he ever had) racked up so many kills because you both resorted to blobbing, and even the katyushas were hardly enough to stop them because your infantry crushed everything else.

And still, they barely won that game because you threw infantry at the middle for a really long time.

Your ally blobbed too hard at the start and it prompted the katyushas. Did they kick ass? Yes, but you did kill them several times until you stopped building anything else but infantry.

Yep blobbing was hard but that didnt prompt the Kats. Check the Bulletin and the Fuel Caches. The whole strat including doctrinal recon over flight was to support the Kats.

Edit:Next time put some shock troops in an M3 to counter the Kats.

Edit Again: The Original Tiger Ace was not at all overpowered.

Yep blobbing was hard but that didnt prompt the Kats. Check the Bulletin and the Fuel Caches. The whole strat including doctrinal recon over flight was to support the Kats.

Edit:Next time put some shock troops in an M3 to counter the Kats.

Maybe so, I mean they did just buff the unit so why not? Honestly I am not very good but every game I see is very blobby and the maps seem too small, so it makes perfect sense. They still barely won that game. They got punished for the truck up too close.

I wish they would nerf all artillery to be honest. zu fuss is just as good, if in a different way.

My logic is rock solid. A person who stands to benefit from imbalance of any kind will defend the imbalance. Therefore a player who plays exclusively one faction will defend that factions advantages. As this player did.

I can understand that point of view, but I don't think you can automatically assume that anyone who plays one faction in preference to another is necessarily not objective


I will certainly agree that you need to play with and play against units to get the full picture

Maybe so, I mean they did just buff the unit so why not? Honestly I am not very good but every game I see is very blobby and the maps seem too small, so it makes perfect sense. They still barely won that game. They got punished for the truck up too close.

I wish they would nerf all artillery to be honest. zu fuss is just as good, if in a different way.

I agree. Games too blobby. No the walking Stuka isn't as good per the cost and it's stats plus it's veterancy per milkacows post. The Kat used to be good. It didn't need to be any stronger than it was a couple of patches ago.

I agree. Games too blobby. No the walking Stuka isn't as good per the cost and it's stats plus it's veterancy per milkacows post. The Kat used to be good. It didn't need to be any stronger than it was a couple of patches ago.

I don't think the kat was very good at all, especially not compared to the werfer or zu fuss. Even if it is better than the zu fuss, slightly, zu fuss is still capable of hurting armor better it seems and slams you in one stroke instead of four.

If kat is better, it's irrelevant to me because I think the zu fuss is to good too. Like I said, I feel it all is too good, however blobs need to be punished and it was barely enough in that game.

It wasn't for a few patches but that due to its nerf. Before that they did just fine I loved them. Then they nerfed them into suck. Then the buffed them beyond that to where they are now.

to those crying about using pumas, its the same with using t34s you numbskulls. finally got what you deserved.

also you can hear the sound when katyusha is firing, why arent you dodging? this is so much fun.

it hits a huge area and fills it with rockets, dont blob!

im really loving all these german tears right now. dont worry, you guys still have the best infantry that has been overperforming for way too long with the lmg34s. next up, nerf obers!

ok,seriously, it fires too fast and does too much to okw buildings, that is all. keep it at 75secs and let it do reduced damage to buildings and it will be fine.

it should never share the same cooldown as stuka because stuka is a precision artillery. katyushas has a huge degree of randomness and is heavily affected by scatter. katyushas cant wipe a lone mg42 or pak consistently unless rng hates you. the only time katyushas does epicly is against blobs, which is the reason why many of you are getting hit hard. time to learn the hard way and spread out.

1 not a German player. Most my games are soviet.

2 what do you think precision strike is.

Getting kills with the current Kat is very easy. Building caches and having cheaper armor overall needs to also be considered. The factions aren't in a vacuum. Buying and losing a Kat is a lot less punishing than losing a Stuka. It doesn't need a nerf to where it was. But it shouldn't stay where it is.

to those crying about using pumas, its the same with using t34s you numbskulls. finally got what you deserved.

also you can hear the sound when katyusha is firing, why arent you dodging? this is so much fun.

it hits a huge area and fills it with rockets, dont blob!

im really loving all these german tears right now. dont worry, you guys still have the best infantry that has been overperforming for way too long with the lmg34s. next up, nerf obers!

ok,seriously, it fires too fast and does too much to okw buildings, that is all. keep it at 75secs and let it do reduced damage to buildings and it will be fine.

it should never share the same cooldown as stuka because stuka is a precision artillery. katyushas has a huge degree of randomness and is heavily affected by scatter. katyushas cant wipe a lone mg42 or pak consistently unless rng hates you. the only time katyushas does epicly is against blobs, which is the reason why many of you are getting hit hard. time to learn the hard way and spread out.

I keep saying the same thing over and over.

The two are completely different in how they apply damage.

The stuka is a fast devastating nuke that hits exactly where you want it to.

The kat is a fast devastating nuke that spreads its damage all over an area completely randomly.

Both will punish you if you blob, but the stuka has a much higer damage potential due to the 0 scatter and predetermined firing path.

I think the cool downs on both justify the kind of gains to be had by using them.

The issue is as stated, you can get to many goddamn kats on the field right now and it's not really very punishing if you lose them. Rather than nerf it back to uselessness I just want it to be more expensive to justify it as an expensive anti blob weapon.

But yea it needs a massive nerf vs buildings right now, that is just silly.

I keep saying the same thing over and over.

The two are completely different in how they apply damage.

The stuka is a fast devastating nuke that hits exactly where you want it to.

The kat is a fast devastating nuke that spreads its damage all over an area completely randomly.

Both will punish you if you blob, but the stuka has a much higer damage potential due to the 0 scatter and predetermined firing path.

I think the cool downs on both justify the kind of gains to be had by using them.

The issue is as stated, you can get to many goddamn kats on the field right now and it's not really very punishing if you lose them. Rather than nerf it back to uselessness I just want it to be more expensive to justify it as an expensive anti blob weapon.

But yea it needs a massive nerf vs buildings right now, that is just silly.

i dont think i wanted to nerf it in terms of effectiveness. AOE and dmg can stay, but not to buildings. also 60secs is way too fast for its effectiveness now. 75 seconds is much more reasonable relative to 120secs for the stuka.

precision strike is an effective ability and cost munitions. it is powerful, but it does not cause complete carnage like the stuka and over a line.

while i kind of agree losing a stuka is way more devastating than a katyusha. there's also the early arrival of stuka and lower tech costs in general for the okw. you said do not compare factions in a vacuum.

soviets have ineffective infantry against okw, oberspam beats a player going for katyusha because he has no medium armour. maybe its time for a change in strategy.

1000+ games as Soviets
0 as OKW / Ost


That would all be very interesting if you'd ever played a game as OKW, actually had to face it and knew what you were talking about. But you haven't, so you have no perspective.


Your best quote:

"to be honest I like the value that's being provided by the kat against OKW"

DO YOU? REALLY? WOW! Yes, of course you like it. I'd like it if suddenly my kubels and US M20s were given tank armour and sniper rounds. I'd come hunt you down with them. But that's called chumpish glee. You're not supposed to like it when you realise something's too powerful. You're supposed to think "oh, this is too easy, it's not interesting"

Before I get to anything here, nice troll sig

First off, I haven't played OKW games because I don't own WFA. I don't have a choice of whether or not to play against them either. So does this mean I have to pay to be able to voice my opinion? That said, it would be nice to know why it's even remotely important that the validity of what I wrote rests on my history as the faction. It seems like a stupid logic to say I have to have experienced getting bombed by katyusha as OKW (because I have been bombed as Ost). It's all the same regardless of the faction. You paid for a bunch of crap and now it's gone after the bombs dropped. Second, your one to talk about the validity of experience, you hardly have any either. You've got less than 100 games played as OKW and far less experience in the game overall as I do. Not only that, your not even playing in the target game mode hardly. You don't play above 2v2 where you will really get your teeth kicked in by arty. In 1v1 your not likely to see much artillery use and in 2v2 you will see some, but not much(unless your opponent is hellbent on getting arty.). Your not even finished provisioning your rank in 1v1, so I hope your keeping your opinion restricted to your 2v2 domain where you spend all your time. Actually are you even contributing your opinion to this thread? it's quite large and I haven't noticed, the only thing I notice is your personal attack on me.

I don't need to be on the receiving end to know what I'm talking about. I see the effects of what I do in the game. I study the stats the game operates on. I am nearing 10 years of experience as CoH being my main game. If you have a different opinion from me, that's fine, say that and be done with it. No one needs you trying to pick apart how they like to play the game to try and invalidate their opinion or usefulness in contributing to a discussion. Seeing what JHeartless has said, I'm surprised the mods here have allowed you to troll on so long without banning you. You should use him as an example, if I'm not mistaken he said he disagrees with me and left it that.

Lastly, your finishing statement can ironically be contradicted through your own tactic of looking at playercard stats and I'll help you fill in the gaps. When I started playing the CoH2 alpha I was excited to have a new enemy in the Soviets and figure out new strategies to beat what Relic would surely make an even more OP Allied faction than what was present in CoH1. As you can see reflected in my stats, I didn't find that. I found easy wins game after game and it was boring. So I then decided to see if I was just top 10 worthy for some strange reason or was it hard as hell to win with the other faction. As you can see from my stats, I'm not top 10, I found it very difficult to win with the Soviets. Ginnungagap was actually one of my first Ost foes and after he effortlessly beat me I became obsessed with finding and reviewing Soviet strategies and the stats within this game. That is what prompted my 1000+ games you have noted on here. You can see from my stats I have much better Ost stats than Soviet. OKW has stronger weapons than Ost, so if your logic held, I would already have bought WFA. I can afford it. I work full time and I get paid more than 2x the minimum wage where I am. I'm not rich by any means, but I could come up with $20 for even easier wins, since your so convinced that's what I'm after. I'm actually waiting for Relic to come off their "new army imbalance to make sales" position before I buy. Unless I run in to an amazing steam sale, of course. I mentioned in my post that my current strategy in large team games, before this last patch, involved using a katyusha to keep OKW players under pressure. Maybe you need to enlighten us with your amazing Soviet strategy to stand up to OKW's superior soldiers. Outside of vehicular attacks, there is no Soviet infantry that can go head to head with OKW infantry. The closest chance anyone has is finding a way to get shocks in close. Everything else just results in a retreat/wipe with a pile of dead soviets behind cover. The Soviet blob is no match for the OKW blob. Good soviet infantry micro and smart cover use is also no match for the OKW blob. If I were to seclude myself into 1v1 games, I might not run into such a hopeless situation as I frequently hear people claim soviets are strongest in 1v1. I have more fun in a team environment though and obviously you do too and ultimately I am here for fun. So don't go trying to paint me to be someone who's jumping on the katyusha train to get easy wins, I've been going t4 with kat for a good while before the patch hit. T3 is not a problem for a well supplied OKW player, sometimes even poorly supplied OKW players handle t3 easy. So to end this:

^ so many holes in that post. sov infantry that can kill okw? shocks and maxims both rape okw. most likely you are like one other person on these threads who played ost when they were insanely op after that one patch, got a bunch of wins as ost and now claim you are a german pro and not biased.

I don't have good luck with maxims, but I'm also not making maxim armies either. I don't say I'm a German pro, plenty of people can beat me with ease. My point is simply that based on who I have been matched with up, I have had an easier time winning with Ost. I played a large team game not too long ago against Siberian and his team and they wiped the floor with my team.