Easy Eight

Do you realize that being able to scavenge armor and team weapons as well as conversion truck make your argument completely void?

Its 90 fuel per tank no matter how you want to spin it.

And do you want to know what is effective against EZ8?

Shrecks and puppchens, because they don't have HE muni and their AI is worse then 34/85, which means infantry is more then a match against it.

You don't fight rock with scissors, you use paper.
Being fixated to the level of obsession on using scissors against rock and failing doesn't mean the rock is op, it means you are in denial of using paper which is the case of 90% balance discussions here.

You don't use weaker tanks against stronger tanks and expect them to win.
Well, maybe you do.

You do if you flank a Jagdtiger with T34's

Some of you are complaing about skipping T4... How about Assault Grens doctrine? Ost can skip everything with it.
Assault Grens? Check.
Panzer Grenadiers? Check.
early-mid game vehicle, Stug? Check.
Arty? Check.
Tiger? Check.
No need to build anything.


About E8... Command King Tiger is coming and you want to nerf the best USF vehicle (which still is shit when compare to best of soviets, okw and ost).
What's more, it's only in 1 doctrine so in fact you know from the first minute what you enemy is planning and you have a lot of time to get prepared for E8.

First things first,. are you trying to derail thread or you just think that what you have to say, even if it is irrelevant to the subject inn hand, must be heard.


Assault Grens? Check. (5 man pio with no at, build more than 1 and you done it wrong)
Panzer Grenadiers? Check. (comes un-upgraded in a ht costing fuel, gl using that for pgrens)
early-mid game vehicle, Stug? Check. (Stu'H' not Stu'G', usless at, lack luster ai, seen rarely)
Arty? Check. ( yeah not bad, not unique or op)
Tiger? Check. ( Good tank, but balanced)
No need to build anything. (only if you are retarded and bias in opinion, sure)


With that out of the way your only offering to the E8 'debate' is that there may be a future commander that you've seen leaked that may or may not be released, that could change wildly in what it offers, that you feel makes the E8 legitimate..... oooooookay

Do you realize that being able to scavenge armor and team weapons as well as conversion truck make your argument completely void?

Its 90 fuel per tank no matter how you want to spin it.

And do you want to know what is effective against EZ8?

Shrecks and puppchens, because they don't have HE muni and their AI is worse then 34/85, which means infantry is more then a match against it.

You don't fight rock with scissors, you use paper.
Being fixated to the level of obsession on using scissors against rock and failing doesn't mean the rock is op, it means you are in denial of using paper which is the case of 90% balance discussions here.

You don't use weaker tanks against stronger tanks and expect them to win.
Well, maybe you do.

Shrecks and puppchens lolz,2 puppchens can't bring health of easy 8 to half in reliable time before it 1-2 shots them...once he has 2-3 of these things no amount of shrecks and puppchens will help u since its AI and speed is so good.

And no fuel and scavenge doctrine are nowhere nearly enough to make up for the fuel.U'll maybe scavenge 10 fuel before 9 cp and convert maybe 15 at most.
I don't,but do provide an alternative to stugs and pz 4s midgame for wehr.Only pak keeps e8 from steamrolling u.So ostheer helpless earlygame to vet rifle blob plus truck,then also midgame to easy 8..so its not supposed to have any offesnive capability at all unless i get tiger?

I'm not in denial ,u are.When one can defend panther at 175 fuel and this even worse than t-34/85 which was alreday too cost efficient..i don't have to wonder aloud about ur utter pathetic bias.

You do realize at 9cp with OKW Elite Armored Doctrine you get 2 P IV's for 360 mp and 105 fuel each...

Compared to E 8's 380 mp and 135 fuel, with a little bit of extensive calculus, you can conclude that OKW has access to cheaper tanks at the same time USF gets the E 8.

Your argument is invalid.

Go home

I can tell you from experience those "Vetted" Piv's lose to the easy 8. Every time. Even if you flank, even if he sits still and lets one of them fire at his rear the entire battle. Even with armored skirts on both. Easy 8 wins.

On the easy 8 itself, i actually think its fine as far as power goes, but it need a price increase. 380/145 at minimum. It's just too good an all around tank to be at such a price.

You do if you flank a Jagdtiger with T34's

Jagdtiger isn't really a tank, is it?

You wouldn't expect 2 T34/76 to beat 2 P4s.
You shouldn't expect 2 P4s J to beat 2 EZ8.

The price difference alone ensures that and its not like P4 J can't get 208 armor as soon as its called as well and when its HEAT rounds will get fixed(assuming they aren't working) it will be able to go toe to toe with EZ8 anyway.

Shrecks and puppchens lolz,2 puppchens can't bring health of easy 8 to half in reliable time before it 1-2 shots them...once he has 2-3 of these things no amount of shrecks and puppchens will help u since its AI and speed is so good.

And no fuel and scavenge doctrine are nowhere nearly enough to make up for the fuel.U'll maybe scavenge 10 fuel before 9 cp and convert maybe 15 at most.
I don't,but do provide an alternative to stugs and pz 4s midgame for wehr.Only pak keeps e8 from steamrolling u.So ostheer helpless earlygame to vet rifle blob plus truck,then also midgame to easy 8..so its not supposed to have any offesnive capability at all unless i get tiger?

I'm not in denial ,u are.When one can defend panther at 175 fuel and this even worse than t-34/85 which was alreday too cost efficient..i don't have to wonder aloud about ur utter pathetic bias.

Your first paragraph is pure RNG. I have had E8s fire 3 times at a puppchen's flank and not hit once, and its AoE is nothing special. 2 of them covering each other are definitely a good deterrent, if not a counter against bad players. Combine one with a Jagdpanzer (a very underestimated unit in these parts, it seems) and you can beat an E8 reliably.

it IS too powerful against Ostheer, but that's an Ostheer problem more than anything. Their T4 is too expensive and T3 can get lackluster in parts. The worst nerf the E8 deserves is a price increase to 410/150 IMO. That's still 150 gas for something that dies to 4 shreck or PAK shots, or 3 heavy tank shots.

Also, if your enemy has 3 E8s, that's 1000+MP/400 fuel. Why are you still fighting them with puppchens and shrecks at this point, unless you got crushed early game?

I can tell you from experience those "Vetted" Piv's lose to the easy 8. Every time. Even if you flank, even if he sits still and lets one of them fire at his rear the entire battle. Even with armored skirts on both. Easy 8 wins.

On the easy 8 itself, i actually think its fine as far as power goes, but it need a price increase. 380/145 at minimum. It's just too good an all around tank to be at such a price.

Show me a video of 1 E 8 killing 2 skirted vetted P IV's...

The video either doesnt exist, or the OKW player has some of the shittiest microing skills ever.

No way an E 8 will win a fight when being attacked in the rear, 2 good rear shots and its already on fire.

Shrecks and puppchens lolz,2 puppchens can't bring health of easy 8 to half in reliable time before it 1-2 shots them...once he has 2-3 of these things no amount of shrecks and puppchens will help u since its AI and speed is so good.

You have confused EZ8 with brummbar. Mine puppchens have no problem forcing off/killing EZ8s.
I forgive you thou, it must be hard to see through constant stream of tears.

And no fuel and scavenge doctrine are nowhere nearly enough to make up for the fuel.U'll maybe scavenge 10 fuel before 9 cp and convert maybe 15 at most.

1)who talks about scavenge doctrine?
2)you still get over 80% of fuel income, can't complain about that really, random vet of the tanks also isn't something you can ignore.

I don't,but do provide an alternative to stugs and pz 4s midgame for wehr.Only pak keeps e8 from steamrolling u.So ostheer helpless earlygame to vet rifle blob plus truck,then also midgame to easy 8..so its not supposed to have any offesnive capability at all unless i get tiger?

Ever heard one of the following terms when dealing with opponents tanks?

-PaK40
-panzershreck
-teller mine
-infantry support

Also, vetted rifles are problem for you?
Have you tried, I don't know, stop playing in offline mode against AI and update game to the latest patch?

You know what, nevermind, if you play on a skill level where blobbing anything is effective you wouldn't understand it anyway.

I'm not in denial ,u are.When one can defend panther at 175 fuel and this even worse than t-34/85 which was alreday too cost efficient..i don't have to wonder aloud about ur utter pathetic bias.

Yes.
I'm in denial.
I can't allow my brain to accept a sole thought that someone would be stupid enough to not use combined arms on the army that have most powerful support teams and for some odd reason expect grens into tiger/P4 spam to work against a player who have a brain developed more then average potato.

Holy crap. Ill say it again. IF it even needs a nerf ( for WHATEVER reason), its only a simple 10-15 fuel increase. Its not a flying roflcopter that shoots nukes at the ground. Its just a good tank.

USF's ONLY good tank. People who complain, get over yourselves...

Holy crap. Ill say it again. IF it even needs a nerf ( for WHATEVER reason), its only a simple 10-15 fuel increase. Its not a flying roflcopter that shoots nukes at the ground. Its just a good tank.

USF's ONLY good tank. People who complain, get over yourselves...

That's all i'm asking for a moderate priec incerase not nerf to unit itself.To reduce spammability.

You have confused EZ8 with brummbar. Mine puppchens have no problem forcing off/killing EZ8s.
I forgive you thou, it must be hard to see through constant stream of tears.


1)who talks about scavenge doctrine?
2)you still get over 80% of fuel income, can't complain about that really, random vet of the tanks also isn't something you can ignore.


Ever heard one of the following terms when dealing with opponents tanks?

-PaK40
-panzershreck
-teller mine
-infantry support

Also, vetted rifles are problem for you?
Have you tried, I don't know, stop playing in offline mode against AI and update game to the latest patch?

You know what, nevermind, if you play on a skill level where blobbing anything is effective you wouldn't understand it anyway.



Yes.
I'm in denial.
I can't allow my brain to accept a sole thought that someone would be stupid enough to not use combined arms on the army that have most powerful support teams and for some odd reason expect grens into tiger/P4 spam to work against a player who have a brain developed more then average potato.

U brought up those things..point remains OKW fuel income is still far less than usa.So at once they don't have a generalist tank and then usa have a tank that spammable and extremely good for its price and comes relatively early.

Puppchens and shrecks are only good in prepared defenses where he comes charging in.Try and expand territory or move with ur at gun army and shreck blob with rifle blob and e8s running around.see what happens.Ur solution is completely defensive.Panther is so costly and useless vs bazookas too.2 e8s will beat panther,even 1 might beat it with panther shitty accuracy in rare cases.

Already mentioned pak,read first.Its wehrs one good at weapon.
Shrecks in numbers not viable for wehr as shreck carrier is mp sink and 120 muni for shrecks on means no lmg42..i.e gg vs rifle blob.

Teller mine...what is that?Ok unless i'm swimming in muni and its a chokepoint map..no.

For what so they can stand and be slaughtered by e8.Grens for dmg engine..and then try to manuever around.Ya i do that anyway.Might pull off taht trick against 1,not multiple ones.Infact he's the one who's likely to have more effective inf support from his bazookas.

I personally use p4s with smoke for survival and pak 43s.Switched to festung armor to deal with this.Tiger too late and not as good vs 2-3 of these.pz 4 alone no good.with smoke they can escape and pak 43 gives them a good safety net.Thats how i'm dealing with it..not ur blanket useless floating out a name.

They were and problem isn't entirely eliminated.Rifles in any case dominates grens on all ranges.Ur survival is entirely dependant on mg 42 usage.If u survive that u also have to mindful to get ur pak out and expend mp for teching by 7 mins when halftrack comes rolling in.This is the second part of teh gauntlet run that is usa vs wehr.Third part is once e8s come rolling as it will completely outclass all ur armor.So yeah ur behind whole game.Don't deny it,ur flat bias is not even infuriating anymore its sad.

Pretty funny that US has one decent all around tank and now its being questioned if it's OP lol. All US tanks should be made of paper armor!

Pretty funny that US has one decent all around tank and now its being questioned if it's OP lol. All US tanks should be made of paper armor!

Its price is being questioned as it deserves to.That is not a 135 fuel tank.Sry sir.

Its price is being questioned as it deserves to.That is not a 135 fuel tank.Sry sir.

It'll be fine at 140.

P4J are not supposed to win against it 1v1 given it was inferior to P4 H so that isn't an argument.

It'll be fine at 140.

P4J are not supposed to win against it 1v1 given it was inferior to P4 H so that isn't an argument.

145..because its better than t-34/85 which is supposed to cost 140.

I would really argue if its better then 34/85.

It got weaker AI and less HP and against dedicated AT only HP matters for anything else then heavy tanks.

I like the E8's armor... anyways, the only quality that is strikingly better than what the t34/85 has is RoF. T34/85 is still more durable and universally screws everything up.

I would really argue if its better then 34/85.

It got weaker AI and less HP and against dedicated AT only HP matters for anything else then heavy tanks.

But its armor makes extremely good except vs panther/tiger.Especially this is its large adv when facing stugs/pz 4s which are around by the time it comes around.That armor is worth 5 fuel at least more than t-34/85.

Do you realize that being able to scavenge armor and team weapons as well as conversion truck make your argument completely void?

Its 90 fuel per tank no matter how you want to spin it.

And do you want to know what is effective against EZ8?

Shrecks and puppchens, because they don't have HE muni and their AI is worse then 34/85, which means infantry is more then a match against it.

You don't fight rock with scissors, you use paper.
Being fixated to the level of obsession on using scissors against rock and failing doesn't mean the rock is op, it means you are in denial of using paper which is the case of 90% balance discussions here.

You don't use weaker tanks against stronger tanks and expect them to win.
Well, maybe you do.

There is not many things to salvage within US matchup, maybe a wreck of Kubelwagon.
Also Easy8 will quite often 2 shot Volks and instwipe 4 men squad. Rocketwerfen gets one shooted and it's a waste of manpower.

I haven't played ostheer vs. Rifle company yet, but overall I am thinking that the T3 pretty much has to be skipped in favor of T4 Panthers. The Tiger tank comes too late vs. the E8 spam.