State of the balance according to Imperial Dane

So I faced Easy 8 for the first time...



It is going to be a bit of a rant but can someone explain to me how a faction so broken with this amount of broken commander was able to survive all the testing? Was everyone playing OKW or something?

How is OKW supposed to survive all this late game armour madness using Puma and single Panther?
Rocketwarfer gets one shoted by Shermans, Volksgrenadier only got single Shreck but you don't want to chase Shermans with them really, do you?
USA starts with the best early game, goes into very strong mid game and than again very strong late game. How is this even fair? I give up.
Can someone can show me how to deal with very good US player in 1v1 and 2v2 please?
Right now I am loosing against players I shouldn't be loosing to. I can CLEARLY see they got even worse micro than me, they have no idea how to use their units effectively, they have no idea about BO and their capping order is one of the weirdest I have ever seen. They don't use covers, take fights in the middle of the road being in negative one, no even slightest hint of flanking. Nothing. To be honest all they do is blob. All day long and they win. They win every freaking time.

I know the pain, It's wiser to stop and wait for the patch rather than enraging in front of the computer. Against OKW a even a no-brainer could win with both USF/SOV.

So I faced Easy 8 for the first time...



It is going to be a bit of a rant but can someone explain to me how a faction so broken with this amount of broken commander was able to survive all the testing? Was everyone playing OKW or something?

How is OKW supposed to survive all this late game armour madness using Puma and single Panther?
Rocketwarfer gets one shoted by Shermans, Volksgrenadier only got single Shreck but you don't want to chase Shermans with them really, do you?
USA starts with the best early game, goes into very strong mid game and than again very strong late game. How is this even fair? I give up.
Can someone can show me how to deal with very good US player in 1v1 and 2v2 please?
Right now I am loosing against players I shouldn't be loosing to. I can CLEARLY see they got even worse micro than me, they have no idea how to use their units effectively, they have no idea about BO and their capping order is one of the weirdest I have ever seen. They don't use covers, take fights in the middle of the road being in negative one, no even slightest hint of flanking. Nothing. To be honest all they do is blob. All day long and they win. They win every freaking time.

Tbh I think USF doesn't have such a potential for a good opening as OKW does with sturmpio and all. The startgame is quite balanced with a verry small OKW advantage let's say wich is quickly overpassed.
From what I see, playing as OKW in 2v2 and 1v1 and playing as USF against it in 2v2, there are two ways you can play OKW right now:
- I see lots of people going on kubel, sturmpio, and 1-2 squads of volks. A verry agressive opening. They go on with Puma, AA sdkfz, and if they do a good job, by middle game is allready gg for theirs opponents; such approach may be riscky in my view, losing your vehicles will end the game for you slowly and painfull;
- I have to admit I am on a more let's say "conservative" side. I don't relay on T3, but on T2 with all it's oferring and it's working both in 1v1 and in 2v2. 1-2 sturmpios, the rest is volks with schrecks, maybe a raketenverfer, and jagdpanzer. Positioning of your T2 is crucial. You have to place it somwhere near the center of the map, hidden after a building or some trees, in a place from where you will have short access to cutoffs and/or fuel. That will be your forward base. You build an infantry gun, and turn T2 into retreating point/. You will control the center even if you retreat. After building the jagdpanzer, you will bring your available truck and place it somwhere near T2 as you would place an 88 in vCoh (needs to have clear path for shooting). Youturn it into T4. It will shoot in any direction and protect your T2 as well. Then, if you face blobs you will build obers and PIIs, if vehicles, a Panther. I almost forgot the most important thing: Breaktrough doctrine. One pzfusiliers squad maybe, but sturmofficer for sure to follow your blob. In this blob every volk must have a schreck. If any amo left, place mines. Okw has good all around mines. If you don't want a panther than don't build it and wait for the Jagdtiger.
I believe this tactics offer you a more balanced army, maybe not so agressive but capable to answer to everything and to control the center, while menacing cutoffs and holding fuel.
Hope this helps.

Right now I am loosing against players I shouldn't be loosing to.

I can CLEARLY see they got even worse micro than me, they have no idea how to use their units effectively, they have no idea about BO and their capping order is one of the weirdest I have ever seen.

They don't use covers, take fights in the middle of the road being in negative one, no even slightest hint of flanking. Nothing. To be honest all they do is blob. All day long and they win.

They win every freaking time.

So I faced Easy 8 for the first time...

You only faced the Elite Rifle commander once.. I dont mean to be a dick but it sounds like your issues are with facing US in general and not so much concerned with that commanders current state (OP as it may be).

EDIT: back OT does any numbermonkey know the stats for the M10 and its pen/accuracy? I played two games yesterday where the damn things seem to miss, even at point blank range, which is rather amusing to watch. The Armour commander needs some love I think. Crew thompsons are very niche, the Dozer is highly situational if not in a good place already but the m10 is too unreliable for me. Maybe an accuracy buff and a call-in cost increase to compensate?

I am not talking Elite commander. I'm talking US in general.


@Heini

Yes, but than comes the AA flacktack and the show begins.

Right now I am loosing against players I shouldn't be loosing to. I can CLEARLY see they got even worse micro than me, they have no idea how to use their units effectively, they have no idea about BO and their capping order is one of the weirdest I have ever seen. They don't use covers, take fights in the middle of the road being in negative one, no even slightest hint of flanking. Nothing. To be honest all they do is blob. All day long and they win. They win every freaking time.

I only play 1v1, and I'm not a stellar player but I agree that the US matchup for OKW is a tough one.

I played against two elite rifle commanders back to back yesterday. First time I tried going with the medic truck and got scraped off the pavement. The next time I tried using the repair truck and getting a Flak HT and managed to get a win.

This doesn't work for everyone, but I personally find that the Flak HT is a better mid game crowd control unit than the Inf Support Gun. ISG is just too erratic to be really reliable against serious US blobbing with BARs IMO.

Basically I start with sending my Pios to cap in the direction of my fuel. I build Volks and have them build one sandbag wall while capping to meet them closeby (usually at a Muni point near the fuel). A Kubel wagon comes out next and I park it nearby but out of sight of my infantry. If I see the riflemen engaging my soldiers I use both infantry squads to get into green cover or a house and hold them while the Kubel moves up to suppress. The minute they start focusing the kubel BACK THAT SHIT UP and get him away. Get him behind lines and tell him to stop moving so he 'unpacks' into suppression mode. If the rifles follow they'll get cut up by the infantry, if not they'll be forced to retreat.

The big danger is if the kubel gets flanked in which case, run it away as fast as you possibly can and pray it doesn't explode. While this is happening, have a second volks being built and either join the fray if he's being stubborn, or have them cap other parts of the map quietly while they re-inforce.

I'll build the repair truck somewhere close to base/in the base and then work on getting a Flak Truck out. The US usually just keep making infantry (soon to come with BARs) or will go for an AAHT. Keep the Flak Truck hidden and keep it far away from the front lines, try to keep it ready to fire because it's so flimsy if a Vehicle Crew sneezes in it's direction while it's packing/unpacking it'll burst into flames. Try to draw the riflemen into it's range with infantry so they get pinned and cut to pieces. Don't keep it in the same place for long. USE SMOKE to get away whenever you feel threatened.

Build some Racketenwerfers to protect the Flak truck and important areas, put them in buildings where possible. hopefully you can get some hits on the AAHT and just generally keep a lid on their armor aspirations.

I'll usually try to get an Flak Truck out then and get some Obers, maybe go for a Panther or Command Panther. Get a Luch if you must, but be aware that heavier stuff is coming so be ready to retreat it to Puppchen alley if you need to.

At this point your armor is all flimsy so Bazookas in blobs will be scary as hell, not to mention your infantry, even obers can be overwhelmed if they have LMG Blobs roaming the countryside, so try to use Flak as often as you can to bleed them dry.

Danes opinion on balance has always been weird. I remember him saying the old tiger ace was fine. He thinks su 85 is the best TD in the game while dissmises the puma and jagpanzer is useless. He thinks panthers are the best way for Okw to play while they really are the least cost effective option out of all

Danes opinion on balance has always been weird. I remember him saying the old tiger ace was fine. He thinks su 85 is the best TD in the game while dissmises the puma and jagpanzer is useless. He thinks panthers are the best way for Okw to play while they really are the least cost effective option out of all

Never forget in beta that the panther had 1280 HP and ridiculous high armor and he said it was fine and "flank" the panther (turreted tank). Never forget that he was fine with 50 fuel stugs. Never forget that he thought elite troops was balanced.

Never forget in beta that the panther had 1280 HP and ridiculous high armor and he said it was fine and "flank" the panther (turreted tank). Never forget that he was fine with 50 fuel stugs. Never forget that he thought elite troops was balanced.

Panther also had 60 range, so only unit outranging it was shitty ISU.

To be fair, I think the community does knee-jerk a bit sometimes, and it's nice to see Dane be relatively 'let's see where this goes, guys'.

I also thought the Panther was a good option for OKW, I used to go for it a lot and it's the closest thing to a 'General' tank the OKW has. I find now that it's just too hard to wait that long for it with no armor in between so I try to get something else in the middle, but I don't think it's a poor option at all when supported. It's fast, durable and does great damage to enemy tanks while with the MG upgrade can take on infantry as well.

^^

In 2013 he thought the Germans were balanced and the Soviets were a L2P issue. I remember that clearly on the official forums.

I hate to see Dane flamed too much though, his casting work is excellent.

Anyway, you know what they say about opinions?

How to play okw : kubel 2 volks 1 extra sturmpio spam pfusiliers like crazy and make nothing but pumas . Add some raketenwerfers if needed.

I think it was a very good assessment of where things are at. Ober Volks get slaughtered, particularly on the aim/fire time for the Panzershrek. The rest of the comments were pretty good as well.

Best part of the video was the Maxim spam on the last Ober section (min 28 approx) - I think there were 5 maxims, with more coming as he's critiquing the Ober units. Seeing that was just hilarious (and typical).

Best part of the video was the Maxim spam on the last Ober section (min 28 approx) - I think there were 5 maxims, with more coming as he's critiquing the Ober units. Seeing that was just hilarious (and typical).

haha yeah, and by min 29 maxim spam was dead/routed haha that was hilarious

I don't really know why people hold Imperial Danes stance on balance in such a high regard. The guy thought that the initial incarnation of the tiger ace, a 320 damage, 2560 hp, 50 range free unit that could blitz/smoke from the get-go was balanced in 1v1. His argument was 'you know it is coming long before it gets on the field', as if that meant that you could magically pull 3 extra SU85s out of your ass to counter it.

I don't really know why people hold Imperial Danes stance on balance in such a high regard.

Because masses like to follow famous people, regardless if they are right or wrong(Hitler anyone?).

I don't really know why people hold Imperial Danes stance on balance in such a high regard. The guy thought that the initial incarnation of the tiger ace, a 320 damage, 2560 hp, 50 range free unit that could blitz/smoke from the get-go was balanced in 1v1. His argument was 'you know it is coming long before it gets on the field', as if that meant that you could magically pull 3 extra SU85s out of your ass to counter it.

+1 good post. Would read again.

I don't really know why people hold Imperial Danes stance on balance in such a high regard. The guy thought that the initial incarnation of the tiger ace, a 320 damage, 2560 hp, 50 range free unit that could blitz/smoke from the get-go was balanced in 1v1. His argument was 'you know it is coming long before it gets on the field', as if that meant that you could magically pull 3 extra SU85s out of your ass to counter it.

Lol +1

I don't really know why people hold Imperial Danes stance on balance in such a high regard. The guy thought that the initial incarnation of the tiger ace, a 320 damage, 2560 hp, 50 range free unit that could blitz/smoke from the get-go was balanced in 1v1. His argument was 'you know it is coming long before it gets on the field', as if that meant that you could magically pull 3 extra SU85s out of your ass to counter it.

I dunno, it did stop all their resource income for the rest of the game and was slow as molasses too. You could conceivably engine damage it and then just make a bee-line for his base/cap the rest of the map/slowly bleed his infantry to death since it was too slow to really cover a lot of the map at once.

Soviets could mine up the entrance to their base to avoid it base rushing if they needed to as well. Again I feel it was something that might have been counterable, even though it was extremely jarring.

Imperial Dane, a caster. Oh he's talking about balance.....shouldn't a.....strategist be talking about balance? There's a difference between a caster and a strategist, a HUGE difference. His video made my day though.
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How can you judge his balance opinion when you dont have a badge yourself?????????????????????????????????????????????????