CieZ's OKW vs Soviet Guide

A few people requested that I do a video guide on playing against Soviets as OKW. I'll admit that this is probably the hardest match up in the game for the OKW. Soviet is a lot more unpredictable than USF, and their assortment of late game armor is much broader - meaning you can't always rely on Schrecks/Puma to keep tanks at bay. Not to mention Snipers and/or Maxims being huge headaches.



Anyways, in the game I just use my general Puma opener, except I skip the second MG34 since I'm facing T1 and MG34s are not useful against snipers. The mid game transitions against Soviet are a lot different than USF, and the late game is even more different.

General tips for playing against Soviet:
Scout their base (or look into the fog) to determine whether they're going T1 or T2. Healing truck is good against T2 because of IGs, while Repair truck is good against T1 because of 251 Flak and/or Puma (T1 lacks hard AT). Volks are surprisingly strong against Cons, this plus Sturms tends to deter Soviet players from making Cons in excess of 3. If you are up against Con spam (4-5+ Cons) you should be able to hold out with your Volks/Sturms + MG34s until they choose a tech path - or you could grab a 251 Flak to punish their lack of tech.

Hopefully you guys enjoy the video and learn some things from it. I'll probably try to make a follow-up video when I get back from my vacation going over how to counter a T2 opener.

What i've ran into few games in a row is a very conservative soviet early game, and then 4+ guard squads w/ quad-upgraded HT. Cant see any way to deal w/ that blob. I can have early game dominance until the guard blob just walks me off the map and then becomes unapproachable...

They rip apart the flak HT, the puma you can keep at distance but it doesnt do much. 1mg is inadequate - it gets taken down too quick even when some/most of the squads are suppressed...I imagine 2 MGs and a puma/raketen to get the HT after suppressing all those guards can work, but that would require a marvel of positioning to get all the guards suppressed. Often the guard blob has a maxim mixed in, which even if you manage to flank just re positions so cant get at it w/ infantry. If I go stuka to deal with it, i'll have nothing but volks/puma for a LONG time against the forthcoming t34s.

Ideas?

What do you use to counter Shocks?

What do you use to counter Shocks?

Easiest:Full health vehicles, mines or Obersoldaten. Fallshirmjagers will go toe-to-toe with grenades, but they only have 4 men. Shocks are expensive to reinforce, and have little AT capability, unless your vehicle is badly damaged. And they cannot cut wire.

For shocks, mgs and fallshirms mostly. Pumas or 251 flak if there are no zis around.

Nice guide, should be get listed in the "Guides" section!

Scout their base (or look into the fog) to determine whether they're going T1 or T2.

This is absolutely crucial, but I wish there was another way to viably scout that didn't feel like cheating. Some maps you can use your support truck but others are just too big.

Why does it feel like cheating? Driving truck to their base?

I think Ciez should do more videos.

I think Ciez should do more videos.

Thanks now that I'm back from vacation I'll start working on another video. Tonight I have round one of the summer cup tourney, but hopefully Friday or Saturday I can make one. Just gotta decide the topic. Maybe a 2v2 guide, people have asked for that a few times... we'll see.

Can you please post a high level 2v2 replay (you and your teammate playing Axis) beating maxim spam? This cheesy strat is getting on my nerves.

Combined Arms or Maxim Spam and you're fucked up as OKW ...... even if your opponent plays like a 3 years old child .... no micro required.

On maps like Cholodny or Crossing in the Woods don't waste your time ...

Combined Arms or Maxim Spam and you're fucked up as OKW ...... even if your opponent plays like a 3 years old child .... no micro required.

On maps like Cholodny or Crossing in the Woods don't waste your time ...

Your handle is hilariously appropriate.


CieZ, if you're taking requests, I'd be interested in seeing what you put in an OST video, in light of the disconnect between how strong you say they are 1v1 and how rarely I see them down in my range.

Your handle is hilariously appropriate.


CieZ, if you're taking requests, I'd be interested in seeing what you put in an OST video, in light of the disconnect between how strong you say they are 1v1 and how rarely I see them down in my range.

They nerfed the IG18 to shit, so how to counter soviet T2? And yes a Maxim don't need much micro with a 2nd behin it -.- after 9CP a KV-8 and it's gege

Once a Zis hit the field the German T2 is very limited.

As far as 2v2 go, I'm a huge believer in having to play as Ost + OKW. Double OKW simply will not cut it against a proper Allied team. Ost + OKW can beat USF + USF or USF + Sov or Sov + Sov, but I'm not going to lie... the fight is definitely up-hill.

Double USF is probably the easiest. As OKW you should open with a Puma while your partner goes something like: MG, Sniper, Gren. Depending on your skill/level and coordination you can mix up this build but Snipers are absolutely devastating against USF - especially when back up by a Puma (to protect from M15/M20/Stuart). Basically you want to use your Volks as meatshields to spot for the Ost Sniper/MG42. After this the Ost player should work their way to something along the lines of:

3x Gren, 2x MG, 1x Sniper, 2x PaK + 251. The 251 is twice as strong in team games because you can both reinforce from it. The late game goal is a Tiger, so they should be playing either Assault Support, Lightning War, or Spearhead.

As the OKW player you can pick up Fusiliers, which make a really great combo with LMG grens. LMGs rock at long range, Fusiliers shred at short range. This is probably the most boring play-style because you'll build repair truck, heal truck and then nothing else with fuel until your Jagdtiger. Alternatively you could go for JLI so that you have infiltration nades + an Ostwind (your partner will probably not be teching T3). I don't really like the idea of fortifications against double USF because their tanks are squishy and slippery, the PAK43 won't be nearly as strong as it would be against IS2s, T34/85s, KV tanks, etc. Generally I still play Luftwaffe because I hate playing without MG34s. Fallshirms are amazing in the right situations and now that OKW gets 100% munitions the valiant assault ability can be downright amazing.

Anyways, as the OKW player you're a lot more free on your commander choice. You won't really *need* the JT against USF, because they don't have anything like the KV-2 or ISU-152, but it is still solid. Your primary goal as Ost + OKW vs double USF is to make it to the Tiger. A pair of PaK40s + Tiger is a nightmare for USF to deal with. You, as the OKW player, will secure the early game with your Puma - babysit that sniper and watch it do work. Mid-game you have to be flexible to figure out if you need some indirect fire (Stuka or IG), some mobile AT (Jp4, another Puma). With the sniper around, and access to so many good MGs, odds are you won't need much extra AI, but Obers are always very strong. Just make sure that, before spending 90 fuel on the flak HQ, you have enough AT in case E8s or other Shermans show up. Dual PaK40 + Jp4 combo is great when used in unison, and should allow you to get to that Tiger.

TLR -

Ost should play T1/T2 into a Tiger. Snipers are amazing against USF, even more-so when backed up by a Puma. If you don't feel confident microing a sniper (well first I'd say to let yourself practice, but another Gren is fine). You will want a pair of PaK40s (they're the best AT gun in the game) and are extraordinarily potent against USF because all their tanks are so "squishy" and lightly armored.

OKW player should get a Puma and do everything in your power to support your Ost partner. You *need* to play as a team to cover each other's weaknesses. Use your Volks liberally. They will gain vet from taking damage, they're cheaper to reinforce than Grens, and they're just a lot more expendable in general - just make sure you don't lose any squads. Figure out what unit(s) will carry you into the Tiger and try to drag the game out. Jacksons are great against Tigers, but not when you have two PaK40s, 2-3 Schrecked Volks and probably a Jp4 around. All USF Sherman models just kind of suck against the Tiger.

Units I tend to avoid against double USF:

Luschs - (If you can catch them off-guard it can be strong, but a good USF team will get Lt + Capt, in which case your Lusch will get hard-countered by a Stuart or 57mm AT gun). *IF* you see double Lt, Luschs can be strong. Just make sure your ally builds a med bunker (they probably should be doing this anyways).

Sturmtiger - I hate this unit, imo it sucks, just get a Stuka.

IR HT - Unless the game is CRAZZZZY campy... why bother.

251 Flak - This patch this vehicle just kinda sucks... it will lose to the M15, it will lose to the Capt, it will lose to the 57mm and it will lose to the Stuart. Don't bother.

In my recent streams I've messed around with early Kubels but having your partner grab and MG42 is just way better. Kubel needs some love for 2v2.

Units I always build:

Volks (obviously)

Puma - my favorite unit, so good, much love.

Stuka - I always try to find a time/place to fit a Stuka in, the squad wipe potential is #RektCity status, plus USF players love to blob. Stuka loves shooting at blobs.

I'll generally round out my build with a Jp4, to back up the PAK40s and support the Tiger. I prefer the Jp4 over the Panther, in the current state of the game because they seem to stand up to Jacksons a bit better.

Wow, this ended up being super long. I'll try to get some one good to play some 2v2 with me this weekend and make a video or two or three. If anyone in the thread wants to play some games this weekend maybe we can find a time. I'm fine with playing as either Ost or OKW.