It's funny though, USF is supposedly the strongest 1v1 but is so damn weak in 2v2.
Too many bitch ass maps with choke points where Ostheer can place a nice MG (or 3) and OKW can make full use of sturmpio's. As on Ostheer player too I can say I never liked these maps. Strategy is thrown out the window. Just MG MG BOMB BOMB.
Balance Wehrmacht vs. US
16 Jul 2014, 22:02 PM
#41
![avatar of 1[][]](/uploads/avatar/9394.png?updated=1397144681)
Posts: 172
16 Jul 2014, 22:40 PM
#42
Posts: 1617
Fighting US in 1v1 is a pain.
On maps with lots of shotblockers and cover you might as well just surrender, because your mg42s will rarely ever be of use and grens can't stand their ground alone vs rifles.
Due to the high dps of US Infantry you need to be ultracareful with your own Infantry because they simply melt to BAR/1919 fire.
All you do as OH is trying to hold on to one fuelpoint and hoping to survive long enough to bring out a Tiger.
And hope your opponent doesn't have E8s, if he has your the Tiger's screwed.
16 Jul 2014, 22:55 PM
#43
Posts: 317
U.S vs Ostheer Balance is very good actually and makes for the funnest matches and no the halftrack does not need to be nerfed I have won my last 8 matches vs us with ostheer if you need help ill be happy to give up some replays.
16 Jul 2014, 23:01 PM
#44
Posts: 1617
U.S vs Ostheer Balance is very good actually and makes for the funnest matches and no the halftrack does not need to be nerfed I have won my last 8 matches vs us with ostheer if you need help ill be happy to give up some replays.
Could you send me some, I'm struggling vs the AA truck. Would be amazing.
17 Jul 2014, 01:15 AM
#45
Posts: 1571
Why is this? The Tiger should pen the E8 every time.
And hope your opponent doesn't have E8s, if he has your the Tiger's screwed.
17 Jul 2014, 01:22 AM
#46
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
E8s should be able to mob and kill a Tiger for cost very well, much like T3485s do.
17 Jul 2014, 01:25 AM
#47
Posts: 1571
I'm thinking it should be same as Lend lease shermans vs. tiger. Somebody could confirm..
17 Jul 2014, 01:33 AM
#48
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
E8s fire slower but with more penetration than the M4C. Other than that they're comparable (tiger ignores both their armor values anyway).
M4C is probably more effective because the 76mm autocannon it has has such a nasty rate of fire. The Rifle company has a really good offmap that can nullify anything behind though, so make of it what you will.
M4C is probably more effective because the 76mm autocannon it has has such a nasty rate of fire. The Rifle company has a really good offmap that can nullify anything behind though, so make of it what you will.
17 Jul 2014, 02:13 AM
#49
Posts: 1384
I really like Ostruppen in this match up. They oddly enough perform much better than Grenadiers.
Grenadiers are pretty mediocre now.
A sniper is a must early game too. Such a huge force multiplier.
Scout car is really meh in this match up as well. Simply too vulnerable to M15.
Mortars can be super effective.
I haven't decided how I feel about the matchup yet.
Grenadiers are pretty mediocre now.
A sniper is a must early game too. Such a huge force multiplier.
Scout car is really meh in this match up as well. Simply too vulnerable to M15.
Mortars can be super effective.
I haven't decided how I feel about the matchup yet.
17 Jul 2014, 11:09 AM
#50
Posts: 262
Get a sniper. Don't try and match riflemen with grens, use them as more of a supporting unit not a mainline unit.
Stugs aren't a bad option, particularly if he goes captain tech for stuarts. It also helps with the m15 and any t4. Very cost effective counter to the Sherman.
Well grens are good vs rifles, i just played 1v1 against 99lvl US and beat him in 7 minutes without any problems. I got like, 60 hours playing time in coh2.
In hoc signo vinces!
17 Jul 2014, 11:14 AM
#51
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I really like Ostruppen in this match up. They oddly enough perform much better than Grenadiers.
Grenadiers are pretty mediocre now.
A sniper is a must early game too. Such a huge force multiplier.
Scout car is really meh in this match up as well. Simply too vulnerable to M15.
Mortars can be super effective.
I haven't decided how I feel about the matchup yet.
I would love it if you could provide a rep of that.
As much as osttruppen fan I am, I don't find them much of a use at all as they can't do anything and are basically exp feeder for me, pretty much like overnerfed partisans.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 Jul 2014, 11:33 AM
#52
Posts: 262
Well grens are good vs rifles, i just played 1v1 against 99lvl US and beat him in 7 minutes without any problems. I got like, 60 hours playing time in coh2.
Damn, forgot to put replay. If anyone is interested...
http://www.coh2.org/replay/20563/easyfast-1v1-vs-99lvl-us
In hoc signo vinces!
17 Jul 2014, 11:34 AM
#53
1 Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
It's funny though, USF is supposedly the strongest 1v1 but is so damn weak in 2v2.
Too many bitch ass maps with choke points where Ostheer can place a nice MG (or 3) and OKW can make full use of sturmpio's. As on Ostheer player too I can say I never liked these maps. Strategy is thrown out the window. Just MG MG BOMB BOMB.
I kinda agree but i also disagree,early smoke nades and a lot of flank clever movement allows for some pretty delicous flanks in 2v2 especially,since MG42s are essentially dead instantly even if slightly flanked unless they instantly retreat.
However maps like Hurtgen forest,having to cross the right side river into bunkers and mg42s covering that fuel point is a bad,bad time
.. best thing you can do is shift into the middle and try to flank that way,and hold that VP to buy you some time for an armored breakthrough(assuming your teammate took the left side...that map is so biased to the axis)
With kharkov you kinda have to harrass over the entire line until you break through,while defending and attacking the cutoffs.
Minsk,i admit is OP for ostheer and okw. in 2v2 at least.
17 Jul 2014, 18:14 PM
#54
Posts: 1571
The 222 is also pretty effective Vs US and exploit their weaknesses. They have no proper homing AT (pfaust, AT nades) and AT guns require uplocking of the captain. Bazookas are often given up in favor of bars during the early game.
The 222 also can exploit the AA HT's blind spots.
The 222 also can exploit the AA HT's blind spots.
17 Jul 2014, 18:48 PM
#55
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
The 222 also can exploit the AA HT's blind spots.
I´m pretty sure you are going to die before being able to get into the blind spot. I´m not 100% sure but it can kill you even on the move.
If Puma has some problems against AA HT why do you think it would be any easier with a 222.
You may try to use it as a finisher, hitting it while he is fausted, but it would be just better to get a Pak.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
17 Jul 2014, 20:09 PM
#56
Posts: 1130
The issue is not can unit X counter unit Z. Because the ost has every tool needed to counter the am ones and do so cost effectively especially if you have the mobile defence doctrine.
The reason why this match up is unbalanced is early game economics. the fastest and least expensive tech AM vs the slowest and most expensive and slowest tech (ost)
to get to tier 2 ost player needs to sacrifice 400 mp. the am zero as they gain either a LT or CPT for free. thats a lot of mp early game. But the ost is forced to buy a pak to deal with the Stuart or the AA track it sets them back another 320 mp. The am on the other hand doesnt have to worry about enemy tanks for quite a while and flak and rifles can handle anything tier 2 ost. so the next fuel mp and ammo can be invested to acquire even more AI power.
In total the ost is set back nearly 720 mp in the very few minutes of the game. that is the key reason why the matchup is so god awfully imbalanced.
The reason why this match up is unbalanced is early game economics. the fastest and least expensive tech AM vs the slowest and most expensive and slowest tech (ost)
to get to tier 2 ost player needs to sacrifice 400 mp. the am zero as they gain either a LT or CPT for free. thats a lot of mp early game. But the ost is forced to buy a pak to deal with the Stuart or the AA track it sets them back another 320 mp. The am on the other hand doesnt have to worry about enemy tanks for quite a while and flak and rifles can handle anything tier 2 ost. so the next fuel mp and ammo can be invested to acquire even more AI power.
In total the ost is set back nearly 720 mp in the very few minutes of the game. that is the key reason why the matchup is so god awfully imbalanced.
horrida flamma bella
17 Jul 2014, 20:13 PM
#57
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
The 222 also can exploit the AA HT's blind spots.
The 222 will in fact lose to the normal moving machineguns on the M15, you don't even need to fire a single round from the autocannon to win that fight with the M15.
17 Jul 2014, 20:19 PM
#58
Posts: 1571
fast 222---> exploit until AA HT appears, counter with pak. The 222 can help quickly finish off the damaged AA HT.
17 Jul 2014, 20:43 PM
#59
Posts: 1705
The issue is not can unit X counter unit Z. Because the ost has every toll needed to counter the am ones and so cost effectively especially if you have the mobile defence doctrine.
The reason why this match up is unbalanced is early game economics. the fastest and least expensive tech AM vs the slowest and most expensive and slowest tech (ost)
to get to tier 2 ost player needs to sacrifice 400 mp. the am zero as they gain either a LT or CPT for free. thats a lot of mp early game. But the ost is forced to buy a pak to deal with the Stuart or the AA track it sets them back another 320 mp. The am on the other hand doesnt have to worry about enemy tanks for quite a while and flak and rifles can handle anything tier 2 ost. so the next fuel mp and ammo can be invested to acquire even more AI power.
In total the ost is set back nearly 720 mp in the very few minutes of the game. that is the key reason why the matchup is so god awfully imbalanced.
Best post of the thread.
17 Jul 2014, 21:04 PM
#60
Posts: 1571
There are units that exploit the weaknesses of the US and close the gap early-mid game by increasing their losses. Obviously the US is strong early game and weak late game compared to Ost.
So far I got:
Sniper, 222, Assault grens, Stug III E
So far I got:
Sniper, 222, Assault grens, Stug III E
The issue is not can unit X counter unit Z.
In total the ost is set back nearly 720 mp in the very few minutes of the game. that is the key reason why the matchup is so god awfully imbalanced.
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