Panther

This comes from the OKW Panther thread when we went off on how unimpressive the Panther is.

Currently I feel the Panther is an inefficient unit only capable of bullying lesser vehicles that come earlier and even then it doesn't do that well, relying on the need of a spotter to be fully utilized with only 50 range leaving it in range of other long-ranged AT weapons if it has to come to the front-line which it will need to considering how much you're going to sacrifice if you dare to get it in 1v1 or 2v2(generally not viable). It does alright against heavies that have 40 range thanks to high penetration, but that is its only saving grace compared to the cheaper, more versatile T3 which fire more often and can ward off infantry at range.

The Panther, for Wehrmacht/Ostheer, you pay a premium for the tech and a tank that has decent armour and good speed, yet it lacks in its ability to actually hunt and kill tanks. It's not very accurate on the move and when coupled with its rather long reload of 5.8-6.7 with only 160 damage it can actually take some time to kill off tanks. And even with its good armour of initially 290, a few bad rolls can mean a badly damaged Panther since it only has 800hp until vet 2. And while having a larger hitpoint pool is good, it also takes longer to get back into the fight, especially without vet 2 pioneers.

Maybe reducing its cost or the teching cost to get it for Ostheer would make it more viable, but even then I generally don't find it impressive. It just doesn't kill tanks that well considering what you're paying for tech and the tank itself to do a job that Panzer IVs can generally do which can have more impact since it comes earlier, not when all the heavy AT starts hitting the field.

I don't play OKW much so I'm not sure if changes to the Ostheer panther would apply to them, but I would like to see one or two of the following if the balance team ever looks at the Panther

1) Lower the teching costs involved in getting this thing out, possibly the base price.
2) Decrease the reload time on the gun. This would make it better against mediums which is what it usually faces making the extra penetration not as useful.
3)Make it more accurate on the move to allow it to be a more mobile tank destroyer

Its obvious issues and near extinct situation is well known,but relic spent 2-3 patches getting it where it is..and so change will not happen i think..that is that.Going to have to live with it.
As for ostheer,don't bother.Just use tiger.

sometime I wonder if it's better to ditch the 10 extra range and just make it a heavy tank. It's stuck in the middle between a proper TD or a proper heavy tank.

Or just lower the price or give it AI abilities or a larger LOS, there's a lot they can do to make it more worthwhile. And all of it will just make Allies fans angry.

Panther is so terrible for the price. 175 FUEL!!!!!=230 fuel for OKW for a tank not much better than a t-34-85. Joke. AI for it sucks penis too.

Well done relic. Yet again.

But thats ok. Let soviets get T-3485 call in. Idiots

Lower price to 130 (still 170 fuel for OKW) fuel and 450 mp. Or increase its capabilities

sometime I wonder if it's better to ditch the 10 extra range and just make it a heavy tank. It's stuck in the middle between a proper TD or a proper heavy tank.

40 range for price decrease would suit me just fine as it barely ever hits on the move at max range.Especially this 10 plus mostly useless range is used as justification to keep this unit extinct by many allied fanboys.

^^

The tanks in coh have a severe penalty for firing on the move.

I thought the panther from 2013 was completely terrible and OP. I think the current one is fine outside of the price but if kept at the current price it should get the P4's AI so it can function as a general tank too.

The tanks in coh have a severe penalty for firing on the move.

I thought the panther from 2013 was completely terrible and OP. I think the current one is fine outside of the price but if kept at the current price it should get the P4's AI so it can function as a general tank too.

Remember when it was that good and people still thought it should get 60 range so it never even had to try to kill an SU-85? Thems were the days,

Luckily the panther got nerfed before the SU did.

I still think all the panther needs is a little more AI- it is a medium tank, though probably less than a PzIV- and less moving accuracy penalty too help offset the loss of already low DPS.

Oh yes, and the SU-85 could reverse with high speeds, hah.

That old panther was back in the days where the T-34/76 fired duds and could not penetrate its rear armor, making it useless unless it rammed, which often didn't do anything but crew shock. The Panther also had a larger pool of HP (960), more speed than currently, and stronger blitz at vet 1. Pen was lower, @ 170

It was also cheaper than the current panther, dipping @ or below (with cheaper T4 teching) 145 fuel at one point.

I've abandoned the Panther in Favor of the OKW 2xP4 aus J. call in. Which is 2 tanks for 210 fuel.

I've abandoned the Panther in Favor of the OKW 2xP4 aus J. call in. Which is 2 tanks for 210 fuel.

Price is ridiculous. Should be slightly more expensive than P4.

I've abandoned the Panther in Favor of the OKW 2xP4 aus J. call in. Which is 2 tanks for 210 fuel.

Same.It gives OKW a solid medium tank..back it up with raketenwerfers and hold out for a KT or a jag 4 for long kiting to complement it and it does a good job.The AI of the pz 4 s is far more useful than shitty panther ..also puma and jagd have same no AI.This gives u a versatile and mobile weapon..without forcing u into a particular truck(read no healing truck early on)

Thx to skirts and HEAT rounds the p4's will kill any other tank in the game combine this with the p4's ausf J AI capability its the best all round medium tank in the game. and yes panther is shit for cost. in the past the panther was very formidable as t-34's of either type where bad. but then they buffed both t-34's and nerfed the panther resulting a massive cost inefficiency for the panther. this unit needs its 960 hp back and cost no more then 145 fuel.

How bad this unit is shown how many people use either use the tiger or king tiger to fill the roll as heavy tank destroyer.

Imho the Panther is the most cost ineffective unit in thise game. It's either way to expensive or its performance simply is not enough for the cost.

As I see it there are 2 types of tank destroyers: turreted (M36 Jackson, Panther, T34-85) and straight guns (SU85, JgPz4, Elefant, JgTiger).
The turreted qenerally lacking DPS compared to the straight guns but have good mobility with their turret.
Looking at the Jackson really trouble german heavy tanks at 350/125 cost, I don't see the Panther beeing the same threat it should be for its cost. Of course the Panther has much more armor and HP and is meant to poke into the battlefield while Jackson needs to be more backlining, BUT I don't see why the Panther is sooo much more expensive with 490/175.
The same goes for the comparison with the T34-85. The Panther has the better gun and armor and that's it. Why this extremly high price?
I don't see it fit that way. With its current stats the Panther should cost max 145 to 150 fuel. If it should stay in the 170 fuel region it needs more damage (240) and more HP (960) from the start.
Regarding the german attitude with tanks, quality over quantity, I would perfer the second approach to justify its high cost by increasing its battlefield performance.

Regards
ace

I agree that the Panther needs to be looked at, it's underperforming: nevertheless against USA I'd rather get a Panther than a PIV.

But some of you guys are overreacting when it comes to lowering its fuel cost!

It should not be less than 155 fuel.

The panther is still better than a single T-34/85 which costs 140 fuel, and an M36 Jackson which costs 125 fuel. You can't just massively lower the panther's fuel cost without having to adjust all of the other tanks fuel costs accordingly, that would call for a massive patch like the one we had back in April.

I'd personally prefer a slight buff while keeping the current 175 fuel price, but then it might overlap too much with the Tiger making it a bit redundant. Or just reduce the price to around 160 fuel, that seems fair.

Cheers.

I agree that the Panther needs to be looked at, it's underperforming: nevertheless against USA I'd rather get a Panther than a PIV.

But some of you guys are overreacting when it comes to lowering its fuel cost!

It should not be less than 155 fuel.

The panther is still better than a single T-34/85 which costs 140 fuel, and an M36 Jackson which costs 125 fuel. You can't just massively lower the panther's fuel cost without having to adjust all of the other tanks fuel costs accordingly, that would call for a massive patch like the one we had back in April.

I'd personally prefer a slight buff while keeping the current 175 fuel price, but then it might overlap too much with the Tiger making it a bit redundant. Or just reduce the price to around 160 fuel, that seems fair.

Cheers.

10203901294th time : a fuel for OKW is not the same as a fuel for other factions... Just don't comment on balance if you guys barely play seriously 1v1

10203901294th time : a fuel for OKW is not the same as a fuel for other factions... Just don't comment on balance if you guys barely play seriously 1v1

10203901295th time: OKW is designed entirely around that resource penalty and has the appropriate strengths to offset it.

Keitel

We know that OKW gets less fuel income.

This Thread is about the Panther in general, not exclusively about the OKW one, there's a thread for that one already... As the OP stated in his opening post

This comes from the OKW Panther thread when we went off on how unimpressive the Panther is.

Vos messages manquent de critiques constructives.

Bien à vous.

I say give it 55 range, a slight fuel cost reduction and lessen its fire on the move penalty. It should work as a mobile tank hunter, I don't see the point of giving it more AI.