With some newfound knowledge of the Recon Support Paratroopers, I think these guys are going to be rather good.
The Recon Company's 8CP ability drops down 2 Paratrooper Support squads in addition to an AT gun. These Paratrooper Support squads lack the Timed Demo Charge (rather useless, truth be told, aside from a heavy cover crater), and in exchange are able to lay down M7 Light AT Mines.
So I've learned to get the I&R Pathfinders, sneak behind the lines, plant down as many beacons as I can before I get caught, and drop down the 2 Paratroopers + AT gun. If the enemy hasn't noticed, I just prance around mining every nook and cranny while fighting some battles and getting reinforcements around the Beacons.
I'd suggest you start using them if you've somehow gotten the Recon Company Commander, they seem a lot more useful than Airborne Company's Paratroopers.
Toughts of a veteran on the airborne company
26 Jul 2014, 16:40 PM
#61
Posts: 218
26 Jul 2014, 19:46 PM
#62
4 
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
With some newfound knowledge of the Recon Support Paratroopers, I think these guys are going to be rather good.
The Recon Company's 8CP ability drops down 2 Paratrooper Support squads in addition to an AT gun. These Paratrooper Support squads lack the Timed Demo Charge (rather useless, truth be told, aside from a heavy cover crater), and in exchange are able to lay down M7 Light AT Mines.
So I've learned to get the I&R Pathfinders, sneak behind the lines, plant down as many beacons as I can before I get caught, and drop down the 2 Paratroopers + AT gun. If the enemy hasn't noticed, I just prance around mining every nook and cranny while fighting some battles and getting reinforcements around the Beacons.
I'd suggest you start using them if you've somehow gotten the Recon Company Commander, they seem a lot more useful than Airborne Company's Paratroopers.
I've been using the Recon commander, and this is one of the best abilities in the game for me. Just a few things, its a 7 CP ability and I don't think the paras lay mines. That being said, I still find the ability best used to reinforce your front-line troops because the AT gun is kind of meh at behind the lines action, and usually just ends up being a free AT gun for your enemy.
The Recon Pathfinders are an amazing unit in 2v2s (haven't tried them in 1v1) because you can infiltrate towards an OKW forward base and lay a barrage on it when the enemy retreats. I have wiped quite a few squads with is, and the artillery counts towards unit veterancy, so I have been able to get the increased sight bonuses quite fast.
All in all, I find that the recon commander plays more towards the strengths of what the airborn commander should be. It uses support units meant for behind the lines action coupled with a useful frontline reinforcement ability. Thats my two cents, what do you guys think?
26 Jul 2014, 20:09 PM
#63
Posts: 99
I've been using the Recon commander, and this is one of the best abilities in the game for me. Just a few things, its a 7 CP ability and I don't think the paras lay mines. That being said, I still find the ability best used to reinforce your front-line troops because the AT gun is kind of meh at behind the lines action, and usually just ends up being a free AT gun for your enemy.
The Recon Pathfinders are an amazing unit in 2v2s (haven't tried them in 1v1) because you can infiltrate towards an OKW forward base and lay a barrage on it when the enemy retreats. I have wiped quite a few squads with is, and the artillery counts towards unit veterancy, so I have been able to get the increased sight bonuses quite fast.
All in all, I find that the recon commander plays more towards the strengths of what the airborn commander should be. It uses support units meant for behind the lines action coupled with a useful frontline reinforcement ability. Thats my two cents, what do you guys think?
I don't think it should reinforce the front line by design but more as a side effect of being to drop anywhere. I think it's fairly safe to say, by now, that everyone dosen't whant something that overlaps rifleman and only helps reinforce your frontline/meatgrinder but something that really allows you to set-up positions behind the enemy line while running disruption operations. Or something along that line. Agree?
26 Jul 2014, 20:38 PM
#64
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
I don't think it should reinforce the front line by design but more as a side effect of being to drop anywhere. I think it's fairly safe to say, by now, that everyone dosen't whant something that overlaps rifleman and only helps reinforce your frontline/meatgrinder but something that really allows you to set-up positions behind the enemy line while running disruption operations. Or something along that line. Agree?
I agree that I would much rather have the ability be used for an actual behind the lines invasion by airborne, I am merely stating that in the current iteration it is too risky to drop an uncrewed AT gun behind enemy lines, especially if you are playing vs OKW and don't want to give them a 57mm.
I would suggest making the ability drop 2 of the para squads with random weapons, and a special "light" AT gun (37mm ?) with the ability to retreat. It could also work if the ability dropped 1 squad of anti-inf paras (thompson or m1919) and 1 squad of dual recoil-less rifle paras. (obviously with a cost reduction)
26 Jul 2014, 20:53 PM
#65
Posts: 1571
^
I agree. I felt this way even with vcoh. They are better off with double bazookas than an unwieldy AT gun that can easily be lost.
So instead of the current mix, I'd prefer 1 double bazooka para squad. 2 double 30 para squad or 2 double bazooka para squads and 1 double 30 cal squad.
vcoh had the 57mm recoilless rifle, but they can't make this effective against mediums. It could be a good weapon against infantry, though.:
I agree. I felt this way even with vcoh. They are better off with double bazookas than an unwieldy AT gun that can easily be lost.
So instead of the current mix, I'd prefer 1 double bazooka para squad. 2 double 30 para squad or 2 double bazooka para squads and 1 double 30 cal squad.
vcoh had the 57mm recoilless rifle, but they can't make this effective against mediums. It could be a good weapon against infantry, though.:
26 Jul 2014, 20:54 PM
#66
Posts: 99
I agree that I would much rather have the ability be used for an actual behind the lines invasion by airborne, I am merely stating that in the current iteration it is too risky to drop an uncrewed AT gun behind enemy lines, especially if you are playing vs OKW and don't want to give them a 57mm.
I would suggest making the ability drop 2 of the para squads with random weapons, and a special "light" AT gun (37mm ?) with the ability to retreat. It could also work if the ability dropped 1 squad of anti-inf paras (thompson or m1919) and 1 squad of dual recoil-less rifle paras. (obviously with a cost reduction)
That sounds fair enough, but don't forget that this thread was about the overall abilities of the airborn commander to act behind the enemy line, set up a defensive position and probably run disruption raids.
Any uncrewed gun really is a pain in the butt when dealing with that kind of stuff as it cut in half one of your squad.
26 Jul 2014, 21:25 PM
#67
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
That sounds fair enough, but don't forget that this thread was about the overall abilities of the airborn commander to act behind the enemy line, set up a defensive position and probably run disruption raids.
Any uncrewed gun really is a pain in the butt when dealing with that kind of stuff as it cut in half one of your squad.
I think the idea is that you call the airborne in next to a beacon, allowing you to crew the gun if you landed out of combat, then reinforce the crewing squad. I feel like the airborne commander should put the 37mm gun in, then allow that AT gun to spawn with a crew, for the same price as the 57mm without crew. I think the gun itself should be similar to the soviet 45mm AT gun, fast rate of fire with low penetration. Another change I believe should be added is a slightly lower cost for any units being para-dropped. I don't think the opportunity cost is worth the chance of the squad being spotted as its coming in and losing members due to a random outhouse. 390mp for a para squad is a bit excessive, as the squad itself is only marginally better than base rifles unupgraded.
26 Jul 2014, 21:31 PM
#68
Posts: 99
I think the idea is that you call the airborne in next to a beacon, allowing you to crew the gun if you landed out of combat, then reinforce the crewing squad. I feel like the airborne commander should put the 37mm gun in, then allow that AT gun to spawn with a crew, for the same price as the 57mm without crew. I think the gun itself should be similar to the soviet 45mm AT gun, fast rate of fire with low penetration. Another change I believe should be added is a slightly lower cost for any units being para-dropped. I don't think the opportunity cost is worth the chance of the squad being spotted as its coming in and losing members due to a random outhouse. 390mp for a para squad is a bit excessive, as the squad itself is only marginally better than base rifles unupgraded.
When you take the beacon into consideration, this means you add another 290MP unit that you had to infiltrate just to have your very generic 390 MP unit be at full strenght while crewing it's uncrewed fully priced gun. See how the cost starts to add up pretty quickly for nothing very special?
Also if you have to refill your squad after drop and then buy them an upgrade, that's one hell of a long time to be at full fighting strenght in a small and fast game like this one. Giving your oponent plenty of time to find you and flush you out.
For the gun i am fine with the 57mm, just make it crewed on the drop. It's too much of a flaw for the job we need to accomplish to be taken.
26 Jul 2014, 21:39 PM
#69
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
When you take the beacon into consideration, this means you add another 290MP unit that you had to infiltrate just to have your very generic 390 MP unit be at full strenght while crewing it's uncrewed fully priced gun. See how the cost starts to add up pretty quickly for nothing very special?
Also if you have to refill your squad after drop and then buy them an upgrade, that's one hell of a long time to be at full fighting strenght in a small and fast game like this one. Giving your oponent plenty of time to find you and flush you out.
For the gun i am fine with the 57mm, just make it crewed on the drop. It's too much of a flaw for the job we need to accomplish to be taken.
I agree completely, the way relic created the airborne commander seems a bit half-baked. It would be nice if the base parasquad cost was 400mp, but it came with a free weapon upgrade (ie. thompsons). As it stands, the airborne take far too long to "organize" to actually be useful as a raiding force.
Another thought would be giving the paratroopers' upgrades a speed buff, so they upgrade fast enough to be useful. (Or what about a glider callin that can act like a forward weapon rack?)
26 Jul 2014, 22:09 PM
#70
Posts: 99
I agree completely, the way relic created the airborne commander seems a bit half-baked. It would be nice if the base parasquad cost was 400mp, but it came with a free weapon upgrade (ie. thompsons). As it stands, the airborne take far too long to "organize" to actually be useful as a raiding force.
Another thought would be giving the paratroopers' upgrades a speed buff, so they upgrade fast enough to be useful. (Or what about a glider callin that can act like a forward weapon rack?)
For the upgrade part, just an instant upgrade seems enough, the "upgrade" is there to give you the choice of what you wanna equip your forces with. It also offset the price with MU instead of MP, allviating the MP they suffer right now.
Mixed with the an already crewed gun, that further lower the MP bleed and the way too long organisation time.
27 Jul 2014, 14:01 PM
#71
Posts: 218
@comm_ash
Yea, I just looked in, the Recon Company Paratroopers are able to lay down light AT mines - rather useful for just aggravating your enemy.
I don't see that 290MP investment in Pathfinders as JUST for the Paratroopers - those Beacons provide a nice bit of minimap-spotting, so if I spam enough, the enemy will pretty much always be revealed. They're also pretty good back-line infantry should you ever face a low-health squad.
And having the AT gun come with crew would have to make the price of it WAY higher than is currently is - being able to drop an AT gun anywhere on the map for the same cost as purchasing one completely nullifies the point of building an AT gun. Making it the same price, but with a weaker AT gun like the M3 AT gun (the 37mm AT gun you guys were talking about) would be fine.
Yea, I just looked in, the Recon Company Paratroopers are able to lay down light AT mines - rather useful for just aggravating your enemy.
I don't see that 290MP investment in Pathfinders as JUST for the Paratroopers - those Beacons provide a nice bit of minimap-spotting, so if I spam enough, the enemy will pretty much always be revealed. They're also pretty good back-line infantry should you ever face a low-health squad.
And having the AT gun come with crew would have to make the price of it WAY higher than is currently is - being able to drop an AT gun anywhere on the map for the same cost as purchasing one completely nullifies the point of building an AT gun. Making it the same price, but with a weaker AT gun like the M3 AT gun (the 37mm AT gun you guys were talking about) would be fine.
27 Jul 2014, 14:17 PM
#72
Posts: 99
And having the AT gun come with crew would have to make the price of it WAY higher than is currently is - being able to drop an AT gun anywhere on the map for the same cost as purchasing one completely nullifies the point of building an AT gun. Making it the same price, but with a weaker AT gun like the M3 AT gun (the 37mm AT gun you guys were talking about) would be fine.
Having a big noisy plane that is destroyable that drops your stuff in a way they can still die and be spotted from miles away while costing ... 5CP? Shouldn't come with a premium of over 100MP. You have commadners that can call in units that fills in roles you don't have usually making them more versatile at no extra cost!
28 Jul 2014, 03:11 AM
#73
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
Having a big noisy plane that is destroyable that drops your stuff in a way they can still die and be spotted from miles away while costing ... 5CP? Shouldn't come with a premium of over 100MP. You have commadners that can call in units that fills in roles you don't have usually making them more versatile at no extra cost!
I actually don't know if the airplane can be shot down, never seen it happen. Regardless, the fact that the paratroopers are worth 336 mp (28 * 6 * 2) means that the "callin" cost is 54 mp. That personally seems excessive when you look at any unit that is callinable from buildings 210-(20 * 4 * 2)= 50mp. partisans
28 Jul 2014, 03:43 AM
#74
Posts: 99
I actually don't know if the airplane can be shot down, never seen it happen. Regardless, the fact that the paratroopers are worth 336 mp (28 * 6 * 2) means that the "callin" cost is 54 mp. That personally seems excessive when you look at any unit that is callinable from buildings 210-(20 * 4 * 2)= 50mp. partisans
The partisans aren't a very good units, hence the price, but i'd like to see the price of teleportation for units like jeagers and falls. This would prove to be a much better comparaison.
28 Jul 2014, 05:09 AM
#75
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
The partisans aren't a very good units, hence the price, but i'd like to see the price of teleportation for units like jeagers and falls. This would prove to be a much better comparison.
Jaeger: 340 - (43 * 4 * 2)= -4 WTF?
If someone can find fallshimjaeger stats that would be nice, I am a bit too lazy to check in game right now.
28 Jul 2014, 05:47 AM
#76
Posts: 1216
I think it is odd that another company gets better ariborne features than the actual Airborne company. Honestly, I'd trade three airborne abilities for this one ability, and those abilities are HMG, AT gun drop and the stick of paratroopers.
All in all, I find that the recon commander plays more towards the strengths of what the airborn commander should be. It uses support units meant for behind the lines action coupled with a useful frontline reinforcement ability. Thats my two cents, what do you guys think?
28 Jul 2014, 06:39 AM
#77
Posts: 1571
Pathfinders would be better if they had the option of spawning from buildings, like FJ's.
28 Jul 2014, 07:26 AM
#78
Posts: 747
Pathfinders would be better if they had the option of spawning from buildings, like FJ's.
I don't think that's necessary since you have Paras that can be deployed anywhere on the field.
28 Jul 2014, 12:58 PM
#79
Posts: 99
Pathfinders would be better if they had the option of spawning from buildings, like FJ's.
I really hate this ability assides from partisans, it's such a cheap sucker punch most of the time. This would jack up the price of this recon unit. Make it a 2 man squad that spawns off map and we could probably have a 200ish MP recon squad that you could easely field 2-3 of those to stay ahead of your enemy in the intel department. Let's keep them simple for that matter.
2 man squad
german sniper camo from the start
marksman shot (vCoH, maybe gated by vet 1)
trip flares (Optional but it fits the unit)
Beacon (Obviously)
28 Jul 2014, 15:17 PM
#80
Posts: 577
Fallschirms have 60 MP opportunity cost (440 MP call in, but 380 MP squad value).
That's basically how the ability is for the I&R Commander. Two squads of Airborne with random weapons and a 37mm gun + crew (which seems to not spawn due to a big atm). I don't think this was the first nor the last airborne commander, so instead of changing this one which is uses rather often and sound I'd go for new commanders instead.
I don't think that's a balanced idea. For 200 MP such a squad would offer far too much. Intelligence is extremely important and I just can't see such a squad being anything but overpowered and would be spammed. Right now all squads that provide good intel are also made expensive in order to keep them in line. Such a cheap squad with also such a great set of abilities would not be balanced :/
I would suggest making the ability drop 2 of the para squads with random weapons, and a special "light" AT gun (37mm ?) with the ability to retreat. It could also work if the ability dropped 1 squad of anti-inf paras (thompson or m1919) and 1 squad of dual recoil-less rifle paras. (obviously with a cost reduction)
That's basically how the ability is for the I&R Commander. Two squads of Airborne with random weapons and a 37mm gun + crew (which seems to not spawn due to a big atm). I don't think this was the first nor the last airborne commander, so instead of changing this one which is uses rather often and sound I'd go for new commanders instead.
I really hate this ability assides from partisans, it's such a cheap sucker punch most of the time. This would jack up the price of this recon unit. Make it a 2 man squad that spawns off map and we could probably have a 200ish MP recon squad that you could easely field 2-3 of those to stay ahead of your enemy in the intel department. Let's keep them simple for that matter.
2 man squad
german sniper camo from the start
marksman shot (vCoH, maybe gated by vet 1)
trip flares (Optional but it fits the unit)
Beacon (Obviously)
I don't think that's a balanced idea. For 200 MP such a squad would offer far too much. Intelligence is extremely important and I just can't see such a squad being anything but overpowered and would be spammed. Right now all squads that provide good intel are also made expensive in order to keep them in line. Such a cheap squad with also such a great set of abilities would not be balanced :/
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