M10: Does it need buffs?

M10 performs really bad against Oberkommando as those have either a similar vehicle (Puma) or heavier ones with sufficient armor and range to outclass the M10 (Panther, Jagdpanzer, ...)
It performs really well against Ostheer T3 though. It outranges the PIV/Ostwind and outperforms them for cost. It can circle strafe the StuG III.
I don't think the unit needs additional buffs. Please keep in mind that not every unit needs to be good against all factions.

The Puma is much more effective than the M10 IMO.

+1

I think it really needs better acceleration. Currently it can't even outmaneuver the tanks it's supposed to counter, which is ridiculous.

^^^

Yea, I believe that the M10 performs much better against Ost than OKW. It actually fulfills its role against T3 but against OKW it gets hunted itself.

it just seems inferior to the Jackson in every way but cost. 20 pen is not a lot on paper but I find that it bounces far more often in practice somehow. It's too slow to be a flanking unit. It's got too high a CP cost to be a rushed AT vehicle.

To be honest, the entire Armor company just isn't worthwhile IMO unless you really don't want to grab T4 for some reason. Sherman and howie stuart are good AI, and Jackson is excellent AT if used well. If the 'dozer was a Pershing instead we could maybe talk.

Armor Company is a joke. 2 abilities that utilize artillery and only 1 ability that actually has anything to do with calling in a tank. The devs just put that commander in for the nubs who want to just spam tanks with artillery. Armor Company in itself is the worst commander you can choose. Airborne is by far the most versatile.

It's stupid but they've been making stupid decisions since vCoH.

Armor Company is a joke. 2 abilities that utilize artillery and only 1 ability that actually has anything to do with calling in a tank. The devs just put that commander in for the nubs who want to just spam tanks with artillery. Armor Company in itself is the worst commander you can choose. Airborne is by far the most versatile.

It's stupid but they've been making stupid decisions since vCoH.

Assault engis and the artillery strike are fine.
M10 and the bulldozer can use a buff.
the thompson upgrade needs drastic changes before it can be useful.

To be honest I still go for it just for the heavy arty strike because it's the best counter to medic trucks, but the rifle+assault engineer start is one of the most powerful in the game and can even beat the assault gren start.

I think lowering CP cost by 1 would make it more useful, even not changing any stats.

Armor Company is a joke. 2 abilities that utilize artillery and only 1 ability that actually has anything to do with calling in a tank. The devs just put that commander in for the nubs who want to just spam tanks with artillery. Armor Company in itself is the worst commander you can choose. Airborne is by far the most versatile.

It's stupid but they've been making stupid decisions since vCoH.

Not for 1v1 it isn't. You foget that doc has demos, which if used early can really devastate the enemy. If push comes to shove you also have cheap armor at your disposale with the m10, which is just a little worse off p4 for only 80 fuel. The off-map is great because it fires huge railway arty type rounds off in a big AOE so if the enemy thinks hes safe on one side he needs to think again. Calling in one bulldozer sherman is great for countering people who tend to blob. Airborne imo is actually the worst doc for 1v1 as the only really good thing going for it is the lmg upgrade for airborne. Everything is overpriced for stuff you can easily get cheaper and crewed for 270/280 mp in t2/t3. In fact I've used Armor'd doc every time for each of my 1v1s to get to the rank of #1 USA. MVGame

Assault engis and the artillery strike are fine.
M10 and the bulldozer can use a buff.
the thompson upgrade needs drastic changes before it can be useful.

To be honest I still go for it just for the heavy arty strike because it's the best counter to medic trucks, but the rifle+assault engineer start is one of the most powerful in the game and can even beat the assault gren start.

Just allow Assault engie to upgrade to Thompson and this company is good. Engie Flamer just keep exploding vs OKW inf, or even better, allow medic to upgrade Thompson => combat medic (Apothecary).

Not for 1v1 it isn't. You foget that doc has demos, which if used early can really devastate the enemy. If push comes to shove you also have cheap armor at your disposale with the m10, which is just a little worse off p4 for only 80 fuel. The off-map is great because it fires huge railway arty type rounds off in a big AOE so if the enemy thinks hes safe on one side he needs to think again. Calling in one bulldozer sherman is great for countering people who tend to blob. Airborne imo is actually the worst doc for 1v1 as the only really good thing going for it is the lmg upgrade for airborne. Everything is overpriced for stuff you can easily get cheaper and crewed for 270/280 mp in t2/t3. In fact I've used Armor'd doc every time for each of my 1v1s to get to the rank of #1 USA. MVGame

I agree, armor allows you to go either T 2 or 3 and tech to T4 and have a decent med anti armor unit. I have been going quick t2 for a m20 with mgs to gain map control and mining choke points with the m20 to kill light armor or stall medium armor and then teching to t4 for either a m80 or Sherman to assist in anti okw blob control. The m10 comes in when I need some AT. The Sherman or m80 coupled with the Sherman dozer allows you to do great squad wipes on inf okw units and the Sherman/Sherman dozer can serve as meat sponges and both have smoke to mask them for AT fire while the m10 gets on the flank of the offender to get the side and rear shots. If the m10 fails or you can't handle the heavy armor you already have T4 and just save for a Jackson and fight conservatively till you get one. If you pull it off you will have 1x M20, 1x M80 or 1x Sherman or 1x Sherman dozer and 1x M10 plus your Jackson more than enough armor handle enemy armor along with your 3 to 4 rifle squads and mgs.

Another option is instead of going for T2 go for T3 for a Stuart and calling in the m10 to work the AT role. Tag teaming the Stuart with it's stun shots and the m10 works well. With this you can build AT guns to augment the m10 or hold the line till you get the m10 out and call in Sherman dozers for anti inf or go to t4 for Jackson's or Shermans.

Assault engs I find are very useful especially on city maps. You can have them wire off approaches early along with the rear echelon sqd to stall your opponent, upgrade to flamers to help clear out garrisons and lay demo traps. Demos are extremely effective on city maps where the streets with buildings force the opponent down them like a funnel just asking for the demo saying detonate me.... It makes my day watching a OKW player loose a chunk of his blob to single demo. They also do a huge amount of damage to armor I had one knock a KT down past 50% hp.

The M10 could be a little quicker but once you get it to vet 2 it gets really useful with its access to advance AP rounds and Flank speed at vet 2 it's a great asset. Even then you can always have the crew bail before the bitter end and have them crew a Jackson or Sherman type tank.

I just came up with a ideal

How about change " Elite Vehicle Crews Upgrade " into " Combat Training Package " ?

Vehicle Crews can upgrade this Package for 60 munis that will:

- Give all of them Thompson.
- Increase health + armor to be the same as Sturmpiooner .

I wonder if in the future we can have a commander that have both " Withdraw and Refit " and " Combat Training Package ".

This way USF can have a good CQC forces .

I know that Rifleman is crazy good in close range with BAR and stuff and we got Airborne troops with thompson upgrade too but you know, just saying .

Kyle - Why do you want to nerf that ability? I thought it was underused / useless already

Oh yeah you are right MilkaCow. It shouldn't be remove.

I just thought that if there is a commander that got both " Withdraw and Refit " with " Combat Training Package ", you can just return those vehicles or give your friend those AA Halfktrack / Stuart / M20 or whatever vehicles you don't need anymore and remember to replace Vehicles Crews with Rear Echelon then you will have a Engineer troops that can fight good at close range and can quickly repair any tank that lost engine.

But yeah like you said, it was stupid to remove it. My bad .

Now you want to change it to exactly the ability it is.

Vehicle crew has the same HP and the same armor and the same modifiers as Sturmpioneers.

The ability feels weak because the unit does not profit much from veterancy and since it's a 4 men squad, not 5 or 6 like many others. If you make vehicle crews gain normal bonuses from vetting, then people would get a M20, use for a while till the crew is Vet3, pur Rear Echelon inside and upgrade the squad with Thompsons. That would give them an extremely strong squad for low cost.
The upgrade itself is massive. The Thompson is better than the weapon of the Assault Engineers, but the vehicle crew is far less expensive to maintain