World of Jagdtiger Online

Disclaimer: The poster primarily plays team games consisting of 3 v 3 and 4 v 4. Sometimes, 2 v 2. This thread does not apply to 1 v 1 games.

Hello internet strangers,

I'd like to welcome to you to the new meta, World Of Jagdtiger Online. Long gone is the ISU152 vs Elephant battles. Now, it is reign of the Jagdtiger. Much more exciting and dynamic battle than before. Right?

Wrong.

This unit is 2.2 times more powerful than the Soviet IS2. Dynamic battle is not required. Flank? No thanks, best frontal armor baby. Damage? Heck yes, best in game as well. Low risk? Absolutely. You can rebuild them, as many as you want! Why have 1 when you can have 2? There is never enough of the best thing.

In my opinion no lessons were learned from the King Tiger v1. Super hero units ruin the dynamic game play.

The problem with the balance for this unit is that in team games it is very difficult if not impossible to counter this unit when in mass. Single units are not the issue. Assuming you are playing a 4 v 4, 5 seems to be the critical mass when it comes to the Jagdtiger. At that point in time its just time to GG. I've played multiple 4 v 4 games now where 6 is not out of the ordinary.

Thankfully the fix is easy. 51 pop cap per Jagdtiger. This would ensure that the OKW still get their super elite tank, would not affect 1 v 1 game play, and would tone done the game breaking use of 4+ units in 4 v 4's. It would encourage the OKW player to build other units aside from Jagdtigers.

Can you tell a bit more about this unit? I dont have WF and from the times i faced it in 2v2 it looked like a elephant? what makes it different?

haha, i know your feel man. but i feel that 1 on the field is way more than enough. Its a mobile Pak43 with giant armor and health values! It even gets a engine upgrade! Lack of mobility! No problema, fix it!

Can you tell a bit more about this unit? I dont have WF and from the times i faced it in 2v2 it looked like a elephant? what makes it different?

It shoots through buildings and terrain like a Pak 43, and has an AoE of 1.5 (compared to every other tank destroyer at 0.5) so it should be able to kill infantry (slowly).

Sarantini. It is what happens when a King Tiger v1 and a Elephant mate. It has a turreted gun (coffee still kicking in), very high frontal armor, better speed (when compared to the Elephant), can kill infantry (unlike the Elephant), and can be called in more than once.

In my opinion being able to call in more than one ruins dynamics of the game. Due to the Jagdtiger being the best at everything why should the OKW player build any other type of armor?

Edit: Can also shoot through buildings like a Pak43.

Sarantini. It is what happens when a King Tiger v1 and a Elephant mate. It has a turreted gun, very high frontal armor, better speed (when compared to the Elephant), can kill infantry (unlike the Elephant), and can be called in more than once.

In my opinion the more than once bit is what kills the dynamics of the game. Due to the Jagdtiger being the best at everything why should the OKW player build any other type of armor?

It doesnt have a turret but turns fast enough thanks to the engine upgrade!!1

Its GG if opponent gets it in 1v1, but for 2v2 I've used it as well as countered it, its manageable and pretty much most expensive armor piece in game.

I think its fine the way it is, but if your tactic is going for ISU, then you're up for a disappointment in late game as you will not hide from it and fusilier flares will ensure you'll die.

I think the units stats are fine. It's just the ability to mass them that needs to be stopped.

I think the units stats are fine. It's just the ability to mass them that needs to be stopped.

how the fuck do you mass a 800mp 280fu unit and not get fucked hard for spending all game not spending any fuel D:

Dear President of the Angry Bears Club a/k/a "Soviet Players upset with balance",

Please stop making suggestions based on 3v3 and 4v4 games. Enjoy team games for what they are, unbalanced crazy events.

Every time Relic tries to balance based on 3v3 or 4v4 it almost always results in one less unit that can be used in 1v1 and 2v2, which is where the balancing should be focused.

Balancing for team games at the expense of 1v1 and 2v2 is just completely wrong and backwards. If you don't enjoy the intensity and micro of 1v1 or 2v2, fine, enjoy your team games, but don't try to balance the game based on the same -- it ruins the balance and diversity of the game as a result.

Your text..

Disclaimer: The poster primarily plays team games consisting of 3 v 3 and 4 v 4. Sometimes, 2 v 2. This thread does not apply to 1 v 1 games.

Hello internet strangers,

I'd like to welcome to you to the new meta, World Of Jagdtiger Online. Long gone is the ISU152 vs Elephant battles. Now, it is reign of the Jagdtiger. Much more exciting and dynamic battle than before. Right?

Wrong.

This unit is 2.2 times more powerful than the Soviet IS2. Dynamic battle is not required. Flank? No thanks, best frontal armor baby. Damage? Heck yes, best in game as well. Low risk? Absolutely. You can rebuild them, as many as you want! Why have 1 when you can have 2? There is never enough of the best thing.

In my opinion no lessons were learned from the King Tiger v1. Super hero units ruin the dynamic game play.

The problem with the balance for this unit is that in team games it is very difficult if not impossible to counter this unit when in mass. Single units are not the issue. Assuming you are playing a 4 v 4, 5 seems to be the critical mass when it comes to the Jagdtiger. At that point in time its just time to GG. I've played multiple 4 v 4 games now where 6 is not out of the ordinary.

Thankfully the fix is easy. 51 pop cap per Jagdtiger. This would ensure that the OKW still get their super elite tank, would not affect 1 v 1 game play, and would tone done the game breaking use of 4+ units in 4 v 4's. It would encourage the OKW player to build other units aside from Jagdtigers.

you ask the bears nicely =]

how the fuck do you mass a 800mp 280fu unit and not get fucked hard for spending all game not spending any fuel D:

Maps that encourage camping. This is the new meta, for 3 v 3 and 4 v 4's. Calling it.

Please stop making suggestions based on 3v3 and 4v4 games. Enjoy team games for what they are, unbalanced crazy events.

How about no. Balance is/was close last round of patching. It just came down to the ISU vs Elephant battles at range. Now, it's Jagdtiger Online.

If the enemy team is "massing" Jagdtigers then you should be able to mass its counters.

Take out the support of a Jagdtiger->Flank it with any medium tank->Dead Jagdtiger.

Or arty the supporting infantry and use ur HOPEFULLY vetted infantry to push it back. BTW the rifle AT nade has a 1000 pen so if u can keep the JT in range long enough u can possible criple it and open for a flank

I would say world of infantry support guns online. Its retarded how okw can spam 3 support gun with 3 volks + initial sturmpio holding the lane and how accurate those support guns against tanks and infantry. Worst thing their hight damage against support weapons (not the cew). Not only you need to repair all your at guns maxims and mortars but even with full hp inf support gun can kill actual gun of maxim or mortar in like 5 hits.

Other bad thing is how good Stuka zu Fuss in large games. Even if it should completely overshadow other barrage weapons concidering hight cost for okw (still it possible to rush fuel conversion building and have stuka in 6-7m compared to 15m+ panzerwerfer), it should never, i repeat NEVER destroy artillery guns in 1 barrage.

And then comes stupid concept of super-elite okw infantry, where obers look at all infantry in the game like on combat engies.

Summing all of this, okw past 20 minutes just feel unbeatable in large team games. Soviet snipers will be destroyed by support guns and stukas; soviet t2 will be destroyed by support guns and stukas; conscriptspam will be destroyed by double sturmpios at the very beginning of the game, tanks will be destroyed by cheap at guns, shreck volks, paks 43 and later, jagdtiger and kt; artillery will be destroyed bu Stukas zu Fuss.

And Americans with their super-fragile tanks and no heavy tanks make allies position even worse. Probably shermans easy eight spam is adequate late game option, but rifle company is super rare. Aside from easy eights, regular shermans just waste of resources in serious games, considering how fragile they are and how much fuel they cost; jacksons is good, but only until jagdpanzers paks 43 and jagdtigers hit the field, m8s is food for pumas, and priest too bad even against pak43 which it supposed to hard counter.

Imo, 4v4 and 3v3 balance was never so fucked up, not even in times of windustry. Played smth like 100 games in 4v4 in top 50 or so i have impression that okw just unbeatable if you teammates have slight understanding of what they doing.

p.s. With current performance Jadgdtiger should be same mp/fuel income penalty as tiger ace and one time callin.

If the enemy team is "massing" Jagdtigers then you should be able to mass its counters.

Take out the support of a Jagdtiger->Flank it with any medium tank->Dead Jagdtiger.

Just because you are able to mass a counter does not mean it is effective. Against numerous Jagdtigers your counter will be dead before it crossed the field. Worse is smaller maps with narrow channels as your counter will be stuck and the Jagdtiger can fire away on them.

Or arty the supporting infantry and use ur HOPEFULLY vetted infantry to push it back. BTW the rifle AT nade has a 1000 pen so if u can keep the JT in range long enough u can possible criple it and open for a flank

Thanks for the Rifle AT nade idea. We have been using the B4 with success.

I honestly think you have not understood why the Tiger Ace was problematic. First of all, it's a Tiger Ace, no King Tiger. Second - The fact it was free and instant made it extremely problematic. Third - It's economy changes basically forced you to attack and basewipe or to camp out the last few CPs (if you were close).
The strengths itself was something bad, yes, but the biggest problem was that it was free, which meant it often ruined balanced 1v1s.

Besides that now to your comparison with the Jagdtiger. This unit can be built repeatedly, is the most expensive unit in the game and for a faction that is inherently resource starved. I don't think the opposites could be bigger. Free vs most expensive ever. Reading on you talk about massing them. One Tiger Ace vs massing Jagdpanzers. Slowly you should notice that this comparison lacks in so many parts. If you now say "but both super strong boss units" - That's not the argument you make! You explicitly say that the unit is fine, but that massing it is a problem, at 5 it's critical.

Besides those obvious flaws, best damage in the game goes to the B4, Sturmtiger and many other Howitzers. Low risk unit? One flanking stuart or T70 can take it out as it gets crew shocked each time it gets a damaging hit (which is almost all the time at the rear). It can't protect itself, so you need to protect it or it's dead weight. I'd say that's the opposite of a low risk unit. If you want to counter it in 4v4s and cannot flank it - have a Soviet player with a ML-20 or B4. Team composition is important.

Now let's look at your so called "fix", which is according to you the perfect solution. 51 pop. That means you can barely field enough to keep it save from flanks and that unit alone will drain you of so much manpower, you'll probably never see it fielded except in low skill 3v3 or 4v4. The unit already is rarely seen 1v1 or 2v2, after such a fix probably never. Instead of such a dumb fix to accomplish the same one could make a limitation of one on the field per player or like the Tiger Ace a one time call in. That would accomplish the same, but in a way that does not ruin it for other gamemodes. Besides that I don't think that it needs a fix in that regard, if the opponent can field so many units, you already made a major mistake.

I hope this shows you that it's not so easy to make balance. You have to look at all game modes and from all points of view. You need to sometimes be creative about how to change stuff instead of going for the most obvious solution. I'm just annoyed by people who constantly shout "Aw ma gawd, Relic Y U NO BALANCE?", but then make badly researched suggestions that show they did not even really understand the concept of some things. Ignorant, but loud and complaining.

lots of exaggeration in this thread..

first of all, its the slowest vehicle in the game. after the engine upgrade, it does have a higher top speed than the elefant (negligible, 3.6 vs 3.3), but that alone hardly determines how responsive a unit is. even after the upgrade it has only 14.4 rotation speed (compared to 16 for the elefant). the real weakness to this unit is it only has .5 acceleration (elefant has 1.4). this thing is extremely vulnerable to flanks.

as for "spamming" them. you really have to be doing something wrong to let okw get 6 tanks worth 800 mp and 290 fuel.

each jagdtiger is roughly the cost of 2-3 jacksons, which will pen 100% from the rear. assuming every shot hit (and it has 26 target size, so its pretty likely) 2 jacksons would kill a jagdtiger in 9 seconds from the back. 3 jacksons would only take 4.5 seconds.

i wouldnt blame the maps. i think the problem is how soviets have decided to play since the expansion came out. they just spam t2 and let americans spam bars/bazookas. pure t2 spam was around before the patch, but its way more common now. camping leads to long games, which leads to late game units that counter your camping.