You haven't faced vet3 infrared obers yet, right?
Ah my bad I've never seen laser gun obs yet. I usually go wer or I never go that doctrine.
Big Balance Thread.
1 Jul 2014, 20:28 PM
#21
Posts: 36
Ah my bad I've never seen laser gun obs yet. I usually go wer or I never go that doctrine.
1 Jul 2014, 20:30 PM
#22
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
Just gonna touch on stuff I definitely disagree with...
Cool double nerf to make sure there is no reason whatsoever to ever go for this if you have teched.
And why is it a problem that it's used as "an LMG team"?
Old armor back on top of the 15% and 20MP lower cost they have is overkill.
Already does fine against USA even if he's dead in a split second in the open.
Most stupidest suggestion of the week. Absolutely and totally unneeded and would fuck up balance in so many ways.
They have a ton of advantages in exchange for the signposts. Retreating units do not care about signposts. Also their build speed needs to be nerfed even though you obviously would not say it.
http://www.twitch.tv/vonivan/b/543339356?t=58m15s
What has the M15 AA HT have to do with flamer? And why do you need the flamerht against fighting positions when they die to pretty much anything? We do not need the old "everyone rushes flameht" meta back.
Unlike implied, this is still very much an issue with all triggered abilities that launch some kind of projectile. They can be cancelled before projectile but after money has been taken.
Has 100% same accuracy as PaK40
The US one is the one that needs a nerf. The OKW one definitely does not need a buff once the M15 has been dealt with.
L2P. There are reasons why Puma is more or less the most commonly seen OKW vehicle right now, and it ain't because it sucks.
Because what we really need is an extremely rushable anti-everything vehicle.
If you copypasted stats from SU85 over to this one, you'd lose 90 frontal armor and would miss more against all vehicles in exchange for 20% faster firing. Those are pretty much all the stats differences between the two (really minor speed differences and scatter values).
Don't build where you're going to get destroyed. Losing trucks has almost no punishing effect to it as it is.
It already has absolutely pathetic AT, even losing to a Stug E. How much worse do you want it?
T34/85 - Double call in needs price putting to 800MP and 280fuel. and a slight hp decrease.
Cool double nerf to make sure there is no reason whatsoever to ever go for this if you have teched.
Maxim - needs a slightly slower setup time (so you can flank it) and needs to have a little less suppression as it is currently. This unit is still easily used as an LMG team.
And why is it a problem that it's used as "an LMG team"?
Pgrens - need their armor back. The recent 15% reduced chance of been hit was ok, but still didnt really change much. These units still underperform for their cost.
Old armor back on top of the 15% and 20MP lower cost they have is overkill.
Sniper - needs 1.5 armor. now more than ever since USF infantry is way more accurate and usually has some sort of LMG.
Already does fine against USA even if he's dead in a split second in the open.
P4 - needs a slight HP increase to match the T34/85. (especially when these units cost the same yet the T34/85 totally overpowers the P4).
Most stupidest suggestion of the week. Absolutely and totally unneeded and would fuck up balance in so many ways.
S mines - Needs signposts removing. These are currently the only faction with useless AI mines unless the enemy player is blind.
They have a ton of advantages in exchange for the signposts. Retreating units do not care about signposts. Also their build speed needs to be nerfed even though you obviously would not say it.
HMG42 - Needs faster suppression.
http://www.twitch.tv/vonivan/b/543339356?t=58m15s
FHT - needs moving back to T2 not T3. (yknow since the Americans can get fighting positions and quadcannon M5's at T2).
What has the M15 AA HT have to do with flamer? And why do you need the flamerht against fighting positions when they die to pretty much anything? We do not need the old "everyone rushes flameht" meta back.
Fixes:
Rifle nade needs to be refunded ammo when not fired or cancled (like the molotov is) currently it costs you the ammo, costs you the cooldown and doesn't fire. Sometimes this happens without it even been canceled.
Unlike implied, this is still very much an issue with all triggered abilities that launch some kind of projectile. They can be cancelled before projectile but after money has been taken.
Rakentenwerfer - too inaccurate.
Has 100% same accuracy as PaK40
Flackhalftrack - Needs a faster setup time (yknow since the USF one comes at the same time, doesn't have a setup time and can destroy the german flacktrack twice over in a duel). Thats not even including the germans flacktrack setup time.
The US one is the one that needs a nerf. The OKW one definitely does not need a buff once the M15 has been dealt with.
Puma - too expensive for how effective it is.... currently the puma costs 70 fuel (that's 100 normal fuel since this is OKW) and it really just doesn't perform as a 100 fuel unit when you compare it to the versatility of the T34/76 and the Sherman. It works as a good sniper, but is too easily countered for its cost.
L2P. There are reasons why Puma is more or less the most commonly seen OKW vehicle right now, and it ain't because it sucks.
Jagdpanzer4 - This really needs replacing with an assault gun.... but as it stands, it needs an AP buff.... since it struggles to penetrate lots of front shots... when this units only dedicated task is killing tanks (and it is utterly useless vs anything else) then it should at least fulfill its roll effectively. Should just copy and paste the stats of the SU85 over.
Because what we really need is an extremely rushable anti-everything vehicle.
If you copypasted stats from SU85 over to this one, you'd lose 90 frontal armor and would miss more against all vehicles in exchange for 20% faster firing. Those are pretty much all the stats differences between the two (really minor speed differences and scatter values).
Fixes:
Canceling construction of a fwd HQ - should refund the resources (it will still stall players teching by 3 mins) but i dont think they should be punished so heavily for having a building HQ destroyed before it is completed.
Don't build where you're going to get destroyed. Losing trucks has almost no punishing effect to it as it is.
Sherman 105 dozer... needs slightly weaker AT, something that can 1 shot squads so often shouldn't be so effective vs tanks.... thats what the M10 is for.
It already has absolutely pathetic AT, even losing to a Stug E. How much worse do you want it?
1 Jul 2014, 20:38 PM
#23
Posts: 36
cruzz that is a vet 3 using a vet ability. vet 0 mg42s suppress slowly. i mean its an mg42, actual soldiers used to hit the dirt when then only HEARD it firing. I know historical accuracy isnt that important in this game but it fires 1200 RPM.
1 Jul 2014, 20:40 PM
#24
Posts: 600
Just gonna touch on stuff I definitely disagree with...
Cool double nerf to make sure there is no reason whatsoever to ever go for this if you have teched.
Same cost as the single call in for advanced warefare... P4 costs 130 fuel and has nearly 200 less HP and worse scatter. and requires teching.
And why is it a problem that it's used as "an LMG team"?
because its a HMG team...
Old armor back on top of the 15% and 20MP lower cost they have is overkill.
yeah id prob remove the 15% avoidance. ill include that in the OP
Already does fine against USA even if he's dead in a split second in the open.
And you dont see that as a slight issue?
Most stupidest suggestion of the week. Absolutely and totally unneeded and would fuck up balance in so many ways.
Currently it is the same cost as a T34/85 in guard motor doctrine. Has less health, more scatter, less penetration and requires teching costs... AND comes with marked target. If the T34/85 got some slight health nerfs or cost increase it wouldnt be needed to buff the P4.
They have a ton of advantages in exchange for the signposts. Retreating units do not care about signposts. Also their build speed needs to be nerfed even though you obviously would not say it.
If the signposts went, then yeah build speed should go back to how it was before. agreed.
http://www.twitch.tv/vonivan/b/543339356?t=58m15s
Sec ill go make a vid where a maxim instantly suppresses a gren squad that was flanking it, and an MG42 who cannot suppress a con squad running at it within its arc of fire before being molotoved.
What has the M15 AA HT have to do with flamer? And why do you need the flamerht against fighting positions when they die to pretty much anything? We do not need the old "everyone rushes flameht" meta back.
I wasnt pitting the units vs eachother... they both have the same "prime time" so to speak. yet one comes far too late. while the other comes abit too early.
Unlike implied, this is still very much an issue with all triggered abilities that launch some kind of projectile. They can be cancelled before projectile but after money has been taken.
Ive seen it happen with US nades, and i think once with a shock nade. but not nearly as often as with grens (prob because they have a longer activation time).
Has 100% same accuracy as PaK40
Except if theres a twig in the way, it will hit that instead. Paks can shoot over/thro fences... this raketen werfer gets interrupted if a flea flys between the gun and the target.
The US one is the one that needs a nerf. The OKW one definitely does not need a buff once the M15 has been dealt with.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Volks are too ineffective, and Kubel waggons too flimsy for 240mp.
L2P. There are reasons why Puma is more or less the most commonly seen OKW vehicle right now, and it ain't because it sucks.
yeah that didnt work out too well for Jesulin vs Luvnest the other day. Guess go tell him to L2p too? the reason the Puma is seen so much is because its the only decent counter to the AA-HT that can be on the field fast enough before you lose everything to that AA halftrack
Because what we really need is an extremely rushable anti-everything vehicle.
If you copypasted stats from SU85 over to this one, you'd lose 90 frontal armor and would miss more against all vehicles in exchange for 20% faster firing. Those are pretty much all the stats differences between the two (really minor speed differences and scatter values).
Used a JP4 yesterday, it missed 5/10 shots and bounced 4/5 of those... its crap.
Don't build where you're going to get destroyed. Losing trucks has almost no punishing effect to it as it is.
if you class 40/40/80 fuel for OKW (60/60/110 normal fuel) as not punishing, for an AA HT to flank and wipe out in 2 bursts while it unpacks as not punishing then i dont know what is.
It already has absolutely pathetic AT, even losing to a Stug E. How much worse do you want it?
Took 20% HP off the front of a panther yesterday, upon watching that i was like o.O didnt check the actual stats tho on that unit ill admit. never had an issue killing med tanks with it tho.
1 Jul 2014, 20:40 PM
#25
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
cruzz that is a vet 3 using a vet ability. vet 0 mg42s suppress slowly. i mean its an mg42, actual soldiers used to hit the dirt when then only HEARD it firing. I know historical accuracy isnt that important in this game but it fires 1200 RPM.
It is in fact not using the incendiary rounds ability until after everything retreats.
The MG42 suppression rate is just fine, and is kinda OP at higher vet levels.
1 Jul 2014, 20:41 PM
#26
1 
Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
@Cookiezncreem What they mean is that it's a free unit when you tech up. No other faction gets that.
Because no other faction techs that way.
You get the LT or captain or you're stuck with rifles without support(which is not viable at all,obviously.). So you're supposed to tech up and pay for a specialized officer and his building with fuel and manpower.
The LT offers suppresion units,and the captain offers AT support,and quicker unit building.. You can get both by the 10 min mark,yes. But you better hope you're good with support weapons,and that you can pay for the "free" major(lol) by the time the heavier armor comes out.
The Americans are unique in their tech system..which wont change.. It wouldnt make sense to have to buy the ability to buy an LT, and his units..he's free for a reason. Because he's technically not free. lol. Its complicated and unique. Deal with it.. honestly dont know what else to say..
Russians can do what they want when they want tech wise(t1 or t2 or BOTH,or delay with t0,then quick t1t3,etc) as soon as the game starts,and have always had that "Advantage"
Wehr starts out (unless you're crazy and dont build the T1 building)
With an MG,Mortar,Basic infantry, and a sniper. more than viable enough to take and hold land without teching for a while, so again,cost of teching doesnt matter here if you do what you're supposed to do.
Oberkommando uses "free" trucks to tech up too. Obviously just like the americans,they cant just NOT build any truck or they wont be able to hold out for long.
1 Jul 2014, 20:43 PM
#27
Posts: 1617
I love how everyone becomes a balance/design expert on the forums and has the ultimate balance idea.
+1 Cruzz. Guys; he is the man who knows who to play the game and knows what he's talking about, you should listen to him.
+1 Cruzz. Guys; he is the man who knows who to play the game and knows what he's talking about, you should listen to him.
1 Jul 2014, 20:52 PM
#28
Posts: 600
I love how everyone becomes a balance/design expert on the forums and has the ultimate balance idea.
+1 Cruzz. Guys; he is the man who knows who to play the game and knows what he's talking about, you should listen to him.
People said something similar about nearly every dictator in history.
Nobody should be unchallenged when others believe him wrong. Welcome to democracy and debate.
1 Jul 2014, 20:59 PM
#29
Posts: 1617
People said something similar about nearly every dictator in history.
Nobody should be unchallenged when others believe him wrong. Welcome to democracy and debate.
It has nothing to do with your qoute it's just most of your suggestions would make the game more inbalanced. And about the "challanging" ; Cruzz did defeat me 2 times (the last one was Ost vs US and I was with US
). I saw him playing on the streams and I say he clearly understands the game and knows what are the current issues.
1 Jul 2014, 21:02 PM
#30
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
cruzz that is a vet 3 using a vet ability. vet 0 mg42s suppress slowly. i mean its an mg42, actual soldiers used to hit the dirt when then only HEARD it firing. I know historical accuracy isnt that important in this game but it fires 1200 RPM.
Ability have completely no impact on suppression.
Only rate of fire and suppression value.
Retreat it in time, get a vet on it and it will stop everything without threads.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
1 Jul 2014, 21:24 PM
#31
Posts: 503
Permanently BannedJust read one of the first statements that you put and i stopped, 120mm mortar for 300mp??? 120mm is the best mortar in the game!!!
If this happens they will be OP...
If this happens they will be OP...
1 Jul 2014, 22:25 PM
#32
Posts: 627
Just read one of the first statements that you put and i stopped, 120mm mortar for 300mp??? 120mm is the best mortar in the game!!!
If this happens they will be OP...
They lose a lot of shine when you compare them to the OKW field gun (not the american one, that one is arse)
1 Jul 2014, 22:26 PM
#33
4 Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
... Rifle nade needs to be refunded ammo when not fired or cancled (like the molotov is) currently it costs you the ammo, costs you the cooldown and doesn't fire. Sometimes this happens without it even been canceled...
This is true for all abilities.
this quote is from dec 10th balance note:
"Improved unit responsiveness to player commands as squads will no longer wait for a transition animation to finish before carrying out a new command"
Has this change been rolled back? since recently whenever i try to use grenades/similar abilities sometime it takes literally 5 seconds for grenade to go off but recharge timer starts immediately. and it does not refund unless you cancel it promptly even the ability don't go off.
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1 Jul 2014, 22:27 PM
#34
Posts: 262
In my experiences, Dozer Sherman's AT is awful. I have no idea where you are getting the notion that they are OP.
Obersoldaten need some form of nerf, they are entirely too powerful.
Obersoldaten need some form of nerf, they are entirely too powerful.
1 Jul 2014, 22:29 PM
#35
Posts: 9
its fun to see all the german maxim whine/buff mg while the mg42 is just better in everything and cost the same xD
1 Jul 2014, 22:31 PM
#36
Posts: 4928
its fun to see all the german maxim whine/buff mg while the mg42 is just better in everything and cost the same xD
Actually it's overall better, it just has a smaller arc of fire so it's easier to avoid.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
1 Jul 2014, 22:32 PM
#37
Posts: 503
Permanently Bannedits fun to see all the german maxim whine/buff mg while the mg42 is just better in everything and cost the same xD
Stop whine!
Maxpin! still the better MG (1 sec pin!), and with 6 guys protect...
mg42 are great, for the range but the man move the mg like as if stuck...
1 Jul 2014, 22:35 PM
#38
Posts: 9
Actually it's overall better, it just has a smaller arc of fire so it's easier to avoid.
thats the point of the mg42, great arc of fire
so what do you want?
you want a nerfed maxim , and your mg42 having better arc, same supress, same dmg?
don't be ridiculous the two have pros and cons , thats called balance
1 Jul 2014, 22:43 PM
#39
Posts: 4928
thats the point of the mg42, great arc of fire
so what do you want?
you want a nerfed maxim , and your mg42 having better arc, same supress, same dmg?
don't be ridiculous the two have pros and cons , thats called balance
I never said anything about nerfing the Maxim, I only said it was better than the MG 42.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
1 Jul 2014, 22:57 PM
#40
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
They lose a lot of shine when you compare them to the OKW field gun (not the american one, that one is arse)
The 120mm has been stealth buffed in WFA. Give it a try, you won't be disappointed with its performance.
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