US troops vs HMG

Happened to me few times already when I had US vs OH matchup and I don't know if that's a design choise or potential imbalance. I don't know how this affects OKW.

Well as mentioned few times I had situation that US blob of units (usually 3) eguiped with machine guns would just walk into MG42 arc of fire and despite being suppressed kill the unit regardless just because of sheer firepower.

I would like to know others opinion as I personally dislike this as it encourages bloobing and frankly there is no skill involved whatsoever.

This has always been a problem with a blob big enough, it's just more prominent now that the US have M1919's.

that MG doesn't sound like it's supported

all those levels of vet, plus the machine guns makes the US infantry so much better than the HMG, so you gotta understand that if you're expecting the MG to win against all those vetern troops and munitions gone into equipping them you're going to need a few troops to support them

In other words, the easiest answer to blobbing is to blob harder.

Personally I don't think it should be that way, MG's should not be a suggestion to retreat or die, it should be a demand. In that regard, I really miss CoH1 MG teams. The only time I've seen those overrun was playing a bridge map against the Soviet AI in Easten Front mod. 10 eight man Conscript squads were the only thing I've ever seen overrun an MG 42 in that game. In this game, all it takes is 2 squads 10 - 15 meters apart, flanking or tactics not required.

Happened to me few times already when I had US vs OH matchup and I don't know if that's a design choise or potential imbalance. I don't know how this affects OKW.

Well as mentioned few times I had situation that US blob of units (usually 3) eguiped with machine guns would just walk into MG42 arc of fire and despite being suppressed kill the unit regardless just because of sheer firepower.

I would like to know others opinion as I personally dislike this as it encourages bloobing and frankly there is no skill involved whatsoever.

US blob is a SEVERE issue atm. attack move and win. Same as soviets.

i did notice how riflemen do quiet a damage while suppressed. noticed because i got several members of units killed while walking up to suppressed riflemen quiet a few times.

that MG doesn't sound like it's supported

all those levels of vet, plus the machine guns makes the US infantry so much better than the HMG, so you gotta understand that if you're expecting the MG to win against all those vetern troops and munitions gone into equipping them you're going to need a few troops to support them

It was supported all the time.

I've definitely noticed something weird going on with MG42s after the last patch. Often times squads are just walking right up to it, and since the MG42 doesn't always suppress fast, a riflemen with BARs can kill the first man (gunner) so quickly that it gives them even more time without suppression to basically force a retreat / kill the entire squad. This occurs from just attacking frontally.

MG crews should reman the MG FASTER.

MG crews should reman the MG FASTER.

+1 I agree

If you can't counter a blob when you have crowd control, you're doing it wrong.

Honestly unless you were just letting your guys stand there and shoot whatever the fuck they wanted while you let your HMG take the hits, you should win 9/10 times in any blob situation.

And don't ever expect to win when you're massively outgunned, even if you have suppression, there is such a thing as saturating the target zone. Units can still shoot while suppressed, throw enough of them in there and they will still do a lot of damage. This isn't a phenomenon unique to American troops.

So if you're seeing a huge blob and you don't have to firepower to handle it, be smart and simply retreat, or sacrifice the unit if it's in your interests to do so.

But honestly in a situation where he's been forced to blob, you should be around doing other stuff. A fist can only smash one object at a time.

What I'm surprised nobody's complaining about is Riflemen getting smoke. It's the best set-up team counter in the game(When they're outside of buildings - Then it's just a delaying tactic). Smoke 'em, run up, nade 'em and they'll either retreat or when the smoke falls off you just kill them.

i have to get 2 mgs together to control a blob -.-. Put 2 mgs together and insta suppress the blob. That shouldn't be needed Relic should make MGs like coh1's MGs. Quick Suppression.

If you can't counter a blob when you have crowd control, you're doing it wrong.

Honestly unless you were just letting your guys stand there and shoot whatever the fuck they wanted while you let your HMG take the hits, you should win 9/10 times in any blob situation.

And don't ever expect to win when you're massively outgunned, even if you have suppression, there is such a thing as saturating the target zone. Units can still shoot while suppressed, throw enough of them in there and they will still do a lot of damage. This isn't a phenomenon unique to American troops.

So if you're seeing a huge blob and you don't have to firepower to handle it, be smart and simply retreat, or sacrifice the unit if it's in your interests to do so.

But honestly in a situation where he's been forced to blob, you should be around doing other stuff. A fist can only smash one object at a time.

What I'm surprised nobody's complaining about is Riflemen getting smoke. It's the best set-up team counter in the game(When they're outside of buildings - Then it's just a delaying tactic). Smoke 'em, run up, nade 'em and they'll either retreat or when the smoke falls off you just kill them.

I agree but on certain maps blobs deal severe damage.

If you can't counter a blob when you have crowd control, you're doing it wrong.

Honestly unless you were just letting your guys stand there and shoot whatever the fuck they wanted while you let your HMG take the hits, you should win 9/10 times in any blob situation.

And don't ever expect to win when you're massively outgunned, even if you have suppression, there is such a thing as saturating the target zone. Units can still shoot while suppressed, throw enough of them in there and they will still do a lot of damage. This isn't a phenomenon unique to American troops.

So if you're seeing a huge blob and you don't have to firepower to handle it, be smart and simply retreat, or sacrifice the unit if it's in your interests to do so.

But honestly in a situation where he's been forced to blob, you should be around doing other stuff. A fist can only smash one object at a time.

What I'm surprised nobody's complaining about is Riflemen getting smoke. It's the best set-up team counter in the game(When they're outside of buildings - Then it's just a delaying tactic). Smoke 'em, run up, nade 'em and they'll either retreat or when the smoke falls off you just kill them.

Yeah theory is nice and all that but it doesn't matter against USA because they can be all suppressed and they will be able to destroy MG42 firing from the edge of the MG's range. Happens way too often if not all the time. Recent game I had a huge blob of US infantry coming at my MG42 supported with Grenadiers squad. I knew what will going to happened so I hit retreat as soon as I suppress this. MG42 didn't managed to pack itself before it got killed (!) Moscow outskirts next to the left hand side fuel point. MG42 was set up in the yellow cover next to a fence and US blob was marching on the road which means they were in negative cover (!) being suppressed. That's how far the theory goes.
So I think screw this next game I know MGs are useful only at the begining before US hits critical mass so I go Ostwind supported with PaKs. Ostwind is a dedicated AI vehicle so I thought it will help me to control and punish this blob but no because suddenly they got Bazookas.
Also having access to artillery piece that's that powerful early in the game is not good neither. Also mobile reinforcement and medic station in one that can be set up at the front line. OKW is guilty of it as well. And obviously there is the Flak Truck of death. GG.
I can't believe this game was in alpha and beta and tested for so long and no one have noticed this.

I have to agree with OZ.

I think it's bad for gameplay if infantrysquads can take on deployed hmgs head on and kill them.

Yeah theory is nice and all that but it doesn't matter against USA because they can be all suppressed and they will be able to destroy MG42 firing from the edge of the MG's range. Happens way too often if not all the time. Recent game I had a huge blob of US infantry coming at my MG42 supported with Grenadiers squad. I knew what will going to happened so I hit retreat as soon as I suppress this. MG42 didn't managed to pack itself before it got killed (!) Moscow outskirts next to the left hand side fuel point. MG42 was set up in the yellow cover next to a fence and US blob was marching on the road which means they were in negative cover (!) being suppressed. That's how far the theory goes.
So I think screw this next game I know MGs are useful only at the begining before US hits critical mass so I go Ostwind supported with PaKs. Ostwind is a dedicated AI vehicle so I thought it will help me to control and punish this blob but no because suddenly they got Bazookas.
Also having access to artillery piece that's that powerful early in the game is not good neither. Also mobile reinforcement and medic station in one that can be set up at the front line. OKW is guilty of it as well. And obviously there is the Flak Truck of death. GG.
I can't believe this game was in alpha and beta and tested for so long and no one have noticed this.

Fully agree, my ostheer partner builds ostwinds every time. Good solution against any type of blob.
I observed dual OKW doesn't work as good as OKW + Ostheer.

Happened to me few times already when I had US vs OH matchup and I don't know if that's a design choise or potential imbalance. I don't know how this affects OKW.

Well as mentioned few times I had situation that US blob of units (usually 3) eguiped with machine guns would just walk into MG42 arc of fire and despite being suppressed kill the unit regardless just because of sheer firepower.

I would like to know others opinion as I personally dislike this as it encourages bloobing and frankly there is no skill involved whatsoever.

Ostheer blobs of LMG grens would do the same.

Just place your MGs in green cover.

MG crews should reman the MG FASTER.

Agreed.

It is so frustrating to see them slowly walking to the MG after the gunner got shot, then standing up taking a look around, kneeling down checking the munitions belt and then starts to shoot. Please shorten this animation/setup time.

And add some more multipliers for each unit in its firing arc. So the MG either suppresses "harder" or kills more if a busload of people are in front of it.

Both MGs are lacking if you compare them to their counterparts. They should be able to suppress much faster. Not pinning, just suppressing. Tweaking the multipliers could be a good idea. More units in the arc? More suppression and dmg output. I can deal with Maxim spams with both OH and OKW. US hmg comes later in the game and there are plenty counters for it. Half truck is a different matter for both new factions.
Juts make MG42 and a true crowd control weapons how they should be.

The only real issue MG42s have against US is that the smokenades are just way too spammable. You don't need to aim them particularly well because they block MG42s from firing in a huge radius around the effect. Suppression rate, pin rate and damage are all good already, its only against sprinting units (hi conscripts) that mg42s have some issues due to gun traverse speed and weird targeting behavior around the edges of the firing cone. USF doesn't have sprinters.

You can't hold off an infantry blob with just an MG42, you need a forward spotter so it starts firing before the riflemen fire back at it (and likely instakill the gunner). But I don't think this is a requirement that needs to go away.