Official Obersoldaten OP Thread
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2 Jul 2014, 21:48 PM
#181
Posts: 4928
Well that's different, ST's got overnerfed and the PPSh change was awful.
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> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
2 Jul 2014, 21:59 PM
#182
Posts: 410
Unit A costs 390 MP
Unit B costs 400MP
Both units are infantry. Both units are infantry only hard counters.
Unit A can be cost effectively soft countered by infantry.
Unit A has a serious range problem and is only effective at one range.
Unit B cost 10 WHOLE MORE MP but arrives sometimes way later other times slightly later.
Unit B is good at all ranges.
Unit B 9/10 times can beat Unit A and gets an upgrade that means 10 out of 10 times beats Unit A.
Unit B cannot be cost effectively countered by infantry.
I dont know who would think thats balanced.
How exactly are STs roles different? Please enlighten me because STs are AI only infantry specialists as are Obersoldaten.
Shocks have 1.5 armor.
+1 . only snipers can deal with OS and US doesnt have that unit
2 Jul 2014, 22:21 PM
#183
Posts: 1637
Well that's different, ST's got overnerfed and the PPSh change was awful.
Well this may be true. I like the change. Because you cant just LOL with STs anymore. But you can with Obers.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
2 Jul 2014, 22:25 PM
#184
Posts: 577
...
Obersoldaten can easily be hardcountered by a ton of infantry units. A HMG with a spotter will obliterate them, in the defense mortars are a pain for them. Snipers also easily kill them.
There are some counters, not many, but some. Not every unit needs a counter of the same kind. If your opponent is teching for Obers you can usually field a Stuart or a T70/T34.
2 Jul 2014, 22:30 PM
#185
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Fallschirms are 380 manpower. They get called in for 440 manpower, but their actual value is 380. If you reinforce them it says "47.5" right? Reinforce is usually half the entities value.
-- 0 -- 5 -- 10 -- 15 -- 20 -- 25 -- 30 -- 35
71.09 71.09 28.90 04.33 02.69 01.45 00.59 00.59 Shocks
33.65 32.87 32.14 31.43 30.71 29.96 28.98 27.99 LMG34 Obers
64.24 62.99 54.23 36.92 29.44 24.20 19.04 14.34 StG44 Obers
59.22 59.22 49.86 30.44 22.07 15.98 10.23 04.83 PGrens
42.11 42.11 38.36 30.47 26.55 23.61 20.92 18.46 Fallschirmjäger
Keep in mind that the StG44 for the last one are better against cover (they do NOT ignore cover, but do not have so much reduced dmg vs it) and have better moving modifiers than the LMG34. Also added PGrens since a lot of people say they have such a low damage. At 14 range they actually deal more dmg than Obersoldaten and as you can see they almost deal as much damage as StG44 upgraded Obers.
What people also forgets is that damage dropoff is bigger for Shocks or PGs in comparison to the other 2. Squad with all the same weapon loses DPS faster than a squad with specialized weapons.
It would be at least worth the try, to see if the LMG not doing as much damage on the move or even not firing, than when he is static.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
3 Jul 2014, 02:23 AM
#186
Posts: 4928
Well this may be true. I like the change. Because you cant just LOL with STs anymore. But you can with Obers.
Actually, leaked patch notes indicate they are changing the PPSh. It'll actually end up better than the Assault Grenadier's MP 40.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
3 Jul 2014, 03:15 AM
#187
Posts: 647
Obersoldaten can easily be hardcountered by a ton of infantry units. A HMG with a spotter will obliterate them, in the defense mortars are a pain for them. Snipers also easily kill them.
There are some counters, not many, but some. Not every unit needs a counter of the same kind. If your opponent is teching for Obers you can usually field a Stuart or a T70/T34.
while true, you do understand that a holding force is needed to check obersoldaten so that they dont move around and lol support teams, while stuart/tanks/vehicles/mg fires on them? even if tanks were on them, tanks also take a short while to actually kill them or drive them away. yet it is exactly in this short while they can kill so many models.
currently no infantry has enough tankiness(OR DO THEY NEED TO) to stand up to these guys. beating them is 1 thing, standing and trading fire is another. most players are not suggesting obers to be beaten by infantry units, however, what we are suggesting is to tone down that facemelting dps so infantry fights are not decided in 5-10secs when obersoldaten cuts down every infantry at range, in cover and losing only a speck of hp. then supporting forces close in to support weapons and wipe everything out.
now THAT is stupid. we know the counters, we know what works(NOTHING) since we are the ones facing them all the time.
3 Jul 2014, 04:51 AM
#188
Posts: 322
Right now in 2vs2, Ober is my favorite unit as OKW. With a nice Puma support, this unit can almost clear out the field.
3 of them can take down enemy MG no sweat and even Rifleman Vet 3 with M1918 LMG have a hard time against Ober.
Now that I ain't gonna say " OMG OP " and bullshit but consider this unit come in late and no anti tank power, this is fair for them when the US could have BAR, M1918 and Rus can have Shock or Guards with DP wayyyy ealier then OKW.
This unit is right where it should be, no need to tweak anything.
Allies players might want to use combine arms force like Rifleman + HMG .50cal / Shock/Guards with MG to deal with them. if you think about blob against blob then think again.
If you fail to take down OKW fast then it's your problem
.
3 of them can take down enemy MG no sweat and even Rifleman Vet 3 with M1918 LMG have a hard time against Ober.
Now that I ain't gonna say " OMG OP " and bullshit but consider this unit come in late and no anti tank power, this is fair for them when the US could have BAR, M1918 and Rus can have Shock or Guards with DP wayyyy ealier then OKW.
This unit is right where it should be, no need to tweak anything.
Allies players might want to use combine arms force like Rifleman + HMG .50cal / Shock/Guards with MG to deal with them. if you think about blob against blob then think again.
If you fail to take down OKW fast then it's your problem
.
3 Jul 2014, 04:55 AM
#189
Posts: 1026
If I could build Vet3 rifelemen with 2x brownings using only manpower in the lategame, I'd practically cream my pantiloons. Very tough to do anything to stem the tide during lategame as USA.
3 Jul 2014, 05:01 AM
#190
Posts: 322
Right now before the next patch come out, you can easily kill every OKW infantry on early game isn't it ?
Like I said, if you fail to finish the OKW players in 1vs1 early then that's why you lost. But heck, if they buff the Volks to be at least the same as Grenadier then fine, nerf the ober.
- Sturmpiooner even with great damage will shit themself against Rear Echelon volley
- Volks is a joke.
- Panzerfusiller can't hold out that much and it's doctrine.
- Falls is good but that's a doctrine unit and only has 1.0 armor. with some grenade upgrade and BAR it's easy to deal with them.
- Rear Echelon can pinned down at least 3 squad in front of him ( I guess you all know how to do )
- Rifleman just need to move with Rear Echelon to kill enemy if they not retreat.
- At about 4,5 mins you can have the AA halftrack that in everyway better then the OKW version....
- About that time a .50cal from Tier 2 can help you lock down sector and OKW players still have a longgggggg time until the Ober can come out ( even if he doesn't get any thing from his first 2 tier ).
If you go airbone, I guess at the time when you drop airborne down, you can upgrade them with M1918 LMG right away.
Like I said, if you fail to finish the OKW players in 1vs1 early then that's why you lost. But heck, if they buff the Volks to be at least the same as Grenadier then fine, nerf the ober.
- Sturmpiooner even with great damage will shit themself against Rear Echelon volley
- Volks is a joke.
- Panzerfusiller can't hold out that much and it's doctrine.
- Falls is good but that's a doctrine unit and only has 1.0 armor. with some grenade upgrade and BAR it's easy to deal with them.
3 Jul 2014, 05:18 AM
#191
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Shocks have 1.5 armor.
I was referring to their op times as you were saying obersoldaten are like the old shocks.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
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Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
3 Jul 2014, 06:25 AM
#192
Posts: 246
I didn't have problems with OS so far as US (not tried Sov since WFA), and with the Sherman HE buff your vehicles will deal with them even better. 
It's the most expensive inf unit ingame, with the upgrade it gest even more expensive, so it should excel. It's not uncounterable, as mentioned by others most of their counters arrive before they hit the field.
It's the most expensive inf unit ingame, with the upgrade it gest even more expensive, so it should excel. It's not uncounterable, as mentioned by others most of their counters arrive before they hit the field.
3 Jul 2014, 06:42 AM
#193
Posts: 157
It's the most expensive inf unit ingame.
It's not. FJs are.
3 Jul 2014, 06:53 AM
#194
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
It's not. FJs are.
FJ reinforce like like a 360 squad. They require no t4 teching costs (120 fuel) . Those 80 mp difference are because you can spawn them from buildings.
If I go t4 then usually for the obersoldaten since the tanks in t4 can be substituted by the t2 & t3 units.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
3 Jul 2014, 06:55 AM
#195
Posts: 246
It's not. FJs are.
They have extra costs for being able to be deployed from buildings, but if you look at their reinforcement costs, they are considered cheaper. Anyways, the upgraded OS are the most expensive unit, even more if you consider OKWs resources.
They don't need to be nerfed hard. They hardly need to be nerfed (if at all).
3 Jul 2014, 06:56 AM
#196
Posts: 747
Well I had a game yesterday where where my oponent paired his OS with Shrecked Volks.
It took quite some micro but I managed to take out the OS with a Stuart/BAR-Rifle combo.
I see that their high dps leaves you very little time to react with infantry but I don't reckon this to be a serious issue, since lategame generally has a lot of ordnance roaming around that can kill your Inf in a blink of an eye.
Imo that's where combat awareness really comes into account.
Overall I really don't see why Obersoldaten should be changed, exept for the modifier against retreating units, which is just retarded because it screws with core gameplaymechanics.
It took quite some micro but I managed to take out the OS with a Stuart/BAR-Rifle combo.
I see that their high dps leaves you very little time to react with infantry but I don't reckon this to be a serious issue, since lategame generally has a lot of ordnance roaming around that can kill your Inf in a blink of an eye.
Imo that's where combat awareness really comes into account.
Overall I really don't see why Obersoldaten should be changed, exept for the modifier against retreating units, which is just retarded because it screws with core gameplaymechanics.
3 Jul 2014, 07:51 AM
#197
Posts: 314
Good news guys, the Obersoldatens aren't getting nerfed next patch. I was a bit worried that Russian fanboys would cause the Obersoldaten to fade into obscurity, and thus destroying the only hard counter to US and Russian mass infantry; luckily Relic didn't listen to them and decided that the Obersoldatens are fine as they are.
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3 Jul 2014, 08:06 AM
#198
Posts: 246
Maybe someone can call me soviet fanboy because I only play as SU, but
I think Obers are good as they are. Yeah, they need to be countered with armor, so what? Roll the fuckitg tank out, get it supported, shred those obers, and have a nice day! & dont whine
I think Obers are good as they are. Yeah, they need to be countered with armor, so what? Roll the fuckitg tank out, get it supported, shred those obers, and have a nice day! & dont whine
UA
soviets
3 Jul 2014, 08:17 AM
#199
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
What stops you actually from putting shocks into a M3 and wipe them on retreat
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
3 Jul 2014, 08:44 AM
#200
Posts: 1026
Right now before the next patch come out, you can easily kill every OKW infantry on early game isn't it ?
Like I said, if you fail to finish the OKW players in 1vs1 early then that's why you lost. But heck, if they buff the Volks to be at least the same as Grenadier then fine, nerf the ober.
- Sturmpiooner even with great damage will shit themself against Rear Echelon volley
- Volks is a joke.
- Panzerfusiller can't hold out that much and it's doctrine.
- Falls is good but that's a doctrine unit and only has 1.0 armor. with some grenade upgrade and BAR it's easy to deal with them.
I almost exclusively play 2v2. And yes it's certainly easier in the early game than it is in the late game. But that in itself is something I feel is terrible design - every faction should be viable at all stages of the game. As to "easily kill every OKW infantry"? No, that would be ludicrous to expect me to wipe the whole enemy player. Unless you just meant that each kind of unit can be dealt with, which is true.
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