M3 + maxim + Sniper spam 2v2 - Early game

MG-42 isn't very scary on the battlefield, sure, and needs tweaking in my opinion. Conscripts just Oorah! into it, get as far as they can get, and crawl the rest of the distance to get off a molotov. Kind of bullshit.

But what you're recommending is ridiculous. And I put that kindly. No insult intended.

If you want to improve machine-guns, start with allowing the player to face them when they are garrisoned in a building. Unless you can already, and I'm just a noob.

Gren MG 42 is fine, tripod MG 42 could use some slight buffs. Even if they just increased the burst time, or better yet, shorten it but make it burst much more often (then you get more consistent suppression and less "WHY THE FUCK AREN'T YOU SHOOTING?!" moments we all hate.

Personally I'd like to see it act like that at longer range, but burst longer at closer range, so people charging right on in get a face full of lead for not flanking.

Gren MG 42 is fine, tripod MG 42 could use some slight buffs. Even if they just increased the burst time, or better yet, shorten it but make it burst much more often (then you get more consistent suppression and less "WHY THE FUCK AREN'T YOU SHOOTING?!" moments we all hate.

Personally I'd like to see it act like that at longer range, but burst longer at closer range, so people charging right on in get a face full of lead for not flanking.

I didn't even think of that. To perhaps fix Conscripts just crawling up to it, maybe as they get closer the MG-42 shoots longer bursts at them, resulting in an earlier pin? However, they last longer (and may not get pinned at all) staying farther away and / or crawling out of the cone of fire.

Interesting thoughts, I like it. Also, another "WHY THE FUCK AREN'T YOU (blank)?!" moment is when I tell them to get out of a building but they immediately set up. Still have no idea why that's not fixed.

^Issue a move order instead of a get out of the building.

I didn't even think of that. To perhaps fix Conscripts just crawling up to it, maybe as they get closer the MG-42 shoots longer bursts at them, resulting in an earlier pin? However, they last longer (and may not get pinned at all) staying farther away and / or crawling out of the cone of fire.

Interesting thoughts, I like it. Also, another "WHY THE FUCK AREN'T YOU (blank)?!" moment is when I tell them to get out of a building but they immediately set up. Still have no idea why that's not fixed.

don't know why that is a problem. conscript closing in within the cone of fire already bleed a lot of health and models. not to mention if mg42 would suppress more consistently, as long as mg 42 has a spotter, no conscripts will be able to crawl their way to throw a molotov.

don't know why that is a problem. conscript closing in within the cone of fire already bleed a lot of health and models. not to mention if mg42 would suppress more consistently, as long as mg 42 has a spotter, no conscripts will be able to crawl their way to throw a molotov.

I disagree.

Rarely see my MG-42s, or that of others, "shred" squads and "bleed a lot of models". All it seems to do is suppress. Which would be nice, except, as I explained, the suppressed units in question crawl their way up to the crew to get off a grenade and / or molotov. And yes, when we're talking 2-3 squads, one of them always manages to do this. It takes an asinine length of time to pin them.

Now, I do admit that if you have a couple Grenadier squads there in support this usually wards them off from attempting this and they issue a retreat. But I remember several occasions where I had an MG-42 watching my cut-off / flank on Langreskaya. You know, the point that connects the right half of the map to the northern base?

Anyway, all my other units were fighting a huge engagement for the right fuel point. A conscript squad approaches the MG-42, coming from the direction of the central VP. They get suppressed OUTSIDE the capture radius, crawl into the capture radius, continue to full de-cap and neutralize it, and only *then* do they become pinned and retreat. The squad with ease could have crawled its way up to my MG during that time. Guess the guy didn't want to press his luck, he did admittedly lose a few guys (two in the process, one guy on retreat).

Still, it is even worse when they have vet.

And no, they were not in green cover.

Agreed, the number of times I've seen points decapped and even captured under MG 42 fire.. Pretty much every time I have an MG 42 watching a point, honestly. True, it doesn't happen if you have a scout. But if you do that, while it'll help, that's 480 MP standing around doing nothing when you could have 2 more Grenadier squads fighting.

I disagree.

Rarely see my MG-42s, or that of others, "shred" squads and "bleed a lot of models". All it seems to do is suppress. Which would be nice, except, as I explained, the suppressed units in question crawl their way up to the crew to get off a grenade and / or molotov. And yes, when we're talking 2-3 squads, one of them always manages to do this. It takes an asinine length of time to pin them.

when a soviet player charges conscript into the arc of mg 42 to throw a molotov, he is risking/spending 240mp unit, time for the con to retreat and re-up, probably 60+ mp for reinforcement, and 15 mu. just for an obvious molotov that becomes evident even before the animation starts... which buys 4-5 sec of no mg42 while it repositions. i think it's ok to let the soviet player throw the molotov.

even if 3 squads of cons are charging mg42 with spotter, its more than possible to suppress all of them just before the molotov lands.

p.s. "bleed a lot of health and model" i said applies to when cons are in molotov range of mg42.

Now, I do admit that if you have a couple Grenadier squads there in support this usually wards them off from attempting this and they issue a retreat. But I remember several occasions where I had an MG-42 watching my cut-off / flank on Langreskaya. You know, the point that connects the right half of the map to the northern base?

Anyway, all my other units were fighting a huge engagement for the right fuel point. A conscript squad approaches the MG-42, coming from the direction of the central VP. They get suppressed OUTSIDE the capture radius, crawl into the capture radius, continue to full de-cap and neutralize it, and only *then* do they become pinned and retreat. The squad with ease could have crawled its way up to my MG during that time. Guess the guy didn't want to press his luck, he did admittedly lose a few guys (two in the process, one guy on retreat).

Still, it is even worse when they have vet.

And no, they were not in green cover.

i think that's fine because you can just cap back right away. but obviously you are not and we have different idea of how fast mg42 should pin. we'll just have to agree to disagree here.... while i agree that vet2 buff that increases the ranges of molotov/rifle grenade is uncalled for.

the other only problem i have is that even after the 10% suppression buff to mg42 way back then, mg42 don't suppress consistently enough still. i think a unit should be suppressed at the end of a volley at the latest.

Agreed, the number of times I've seen points decapped and even captured under MG 42 fire.. Pretty much every time I have an MG 42 watching a point, honestly. True, it doesn't happen if you have a scout. But if you do that, while it'll help, that's 480 MP standing around doing nothing when you could have 2 more Grenadier squads fighting.

Yep. I asked a friend when he was playing the Soviets, "Why do you just Oorah! into my machine-guns? It's kind of funny." Because, to me, I'm thinking you're supposed to use that ability to flank.

Well, low and behold his answer was (paraphrasing), "One of those squads is going to get close enough to your MG to throw a molotov, suppressed or not. Dislodge your MG, remaining squads flank and you lose hold." Sure enough, just about every time it happened.

He did show me that having a second MG covering the first one helps. When they have almost crawled close enough to the front MG, you pull it back while the one behind it still keeps firing. Still, MG-42's should be able to act alone. I don't mean unsupported, but needing support from another machine-gun is silly.

when a soviet player charges conscript into the arc of mg 42 to throw a molotov, he is risking/spending 240mp unit, time for the con to retreat and re-up, probably 60+ mp for reinforcement, and 15 mu. just for an obvious molotov that becomes evident even before the animation starts... which buys 4-5 sec of no mg42 while it repositions. i think it's ok to let the soviet player throw the molotov.

even if 3 squads of cons are charging mg42 with spotter, its more than possible to suppress all of them just before the molotov lands.

p.s. "bleed a lot of health and model" i said applies to when cons are in molotov range of mg42.



i think that's fine because you can just cap back right away. but obviously you are not and we have different idea of how fast mg42 should pin. we'll just have to agree to disagree here.... while i agree that vet2 buff that increases the ranges of molotov/rifle grenade is uncalled for.

the other only problem i have is that even after the 10% suppression buff to mg42 way back then, mg42 don't suppress consistently enough still. i think a unit should be suppressed at the end of a volley at the latest.

That is true, good micro should allow me to move my machine-gun out of the way in time and then reposition. Still, I think it is ridiculous I need to move it at all when they crawled the *entire* distance of the firing arc. Not to mention the squads that weren't pinned can simply rush my MG at that point.

Also a fair point that I can just cap it back right away. Assuming of course there was only one squad in question. As you see this discussion is a bit theoretical, as unfortunately I do not have replays specifically to show you this. If you want one I'll save one next time I see it.

I just don't think they should be able to do that regardless. When a unit tries to get up to throw a grenade, it should get some sort of accuracy decrease. Either that or a range decrease. Maybe both.

P.S. Oh, crap. Sorry for double-post. #noob

P.S.S. To add more on the first bit, the purpose doesn't seem to necessarily burn or kill the crew. You would have to be playing against somebody inept, new to the game, or an AI for an MG-42 to relax in the fiery hell of your molotov until all four of them died. Rather, it is to dislodge the crew so that your other forces can then move forward at ease. A bit less flanking required that way. At least, that's what I've noticed when the tactic is used against me, or when using it against / with others.

when a soviet player charges conscript into the arc of mg 42 to throw a molotov, he is risking/spending 240mp unit, time for the con to retreat and re-up, probably 60+ mp for reinforcement, and 15 mu. just for an obvious molotov that becomes evident even before the animation starts... which buys 4-5 sec of no mg42 while it repositions. i think it's ok to let the soviet player throw the molotov.

even if 3 squads of cons are charging mg42 with spotter, its more than possible to suppress all of them just before the molotov lands.

No it isnt. and your idea about balance is frankly absurd.

No it isnt. and your idea about balance is frankly absurd.

it is, my teammates and i have done it before.

also,what's my idea of balance?

also,what's my idea of balance?

Whatever it is, its certainly 100% better then his idea of taking away 50-70% of stats while leaving cost the same or greater.

Mg 42 can suppress reliably when only when the cons is coming dead centre on his firing arc..everytime 2 cons squads and sometimes even one is coming from the sides of the firing arc,even if it is within the arc..usually i find conscripts oorah and close enough distance that it can crawl into a molotov before mg 42 actually turns gun and takes time to suppress with burst.

Now this added to its total lack of killing power(AP rounds have kill power but u need vet 1 which is difficult to get with mguns than infantry and also does the ammo change animation),its utter uselessness in buildings,huge pack up time and worst of all ability of maxims to walk up into its arc set up and win...makes this unit a so so with too many flaws which many ost players pass up.This used to be the trademark wehrmacht weapon and the best mg of all time..but its relative performance to the obsolete maxim is highly disappointing to say the least.
Maybe they should have kept it 260 mp with 3 members and retained its killing power.

Mg 42 can suppress reliably when only when the cons is coming dead centre on his firing arc..everytime 2 cons squads and sometimes even one is coming from the sides of the firing arc,even if it is within the arc..usually i find conscripts oorah and close enough distance that it can crawl into a molotov before mg 42 actually turns gun and takes time to suppress with burst.

Now this added to its total lack of killing power(AP rounds have kill power but u need vet 1 which is difficult to get with mguns than infantry and also does the ammo change animation),its utter uselessness in buildings,huge pack up time and worst of all ability of maxims to walk up into its arc set up and win...makes this unit a so so with too many flaws which many ost players pass up.This used to be the trademark wehrmacht weapon and the best mg of all time..but its relative performance to the obsolete maxim is highly disappointing to say the least.
Maybe they should have kept it 260 mp with 3 members and retained its killing power.

Agreed, changes need to be made to it so that it is actually feared / respected on the battlefield.

The way to "shred" infantry with MG42 is with the Incendiary Rounds.

The way to "shred" infantry with MG42 is with the Incendiary Rounds.

Very true but this ability also requires a very long reload time making it a bit difficult to use. when you do manage to pull it of its awesome.

it is, my teammates and i have done it before.

Then your playing against people who love to blob up their stuff. The gun traverse is so slow that you can attack at the edge of the cone and till get into molotov range before the mg42 starts shooting.

Yes I agree. Before the patch it was useful. And before the patch it didnt cost almost as much as a conscript squad in MP.

If they want to roll it back to where it was suits me. Just lower back down its cost.

Edit:

And the PTRS is garbage now. Its only good in a M3. Go try to kill a 222 with it outside an M3 post last nerf.

The DPLMG is great now though ill give you that. But its very expensive. Giving less muni to acutally button or doctrine dependant mark vehicle.

With that being said T1 seems to break the rule relic posed a little while ago where call ins should augment an army not replace things. Guards being required goes against this.

So strange that so many soviet players do not seem to get that its perfectly viable to get tier 1 and 2 and dont need guards. Buts that for another time. The mp m3 cost increased buts its fuel got decreased. But i do agree that a transport only m3 should only cost 140/10

So strange that so many soviet players do not seem to get that its perfectly viable to get tier 1 and 2 and dont need guards. Buts that for another time. The mp m3 cost increased buts its fuel got decreased. But i do agree that a transport only m3 should only cost 140/10

Thats only viable if you plan on using nothing but call-ins for late game.

Otherwise tech costs and the mandatory need to get molo and AT nade will put you so far back that by the time you'll pump up first T34, a pair of P4s will be on the field.

Thats only viable if you plan on using nothing but call-ins for late game.

Otherwise tech costs and the mandatory need to get molo and AT nade will put you so far back that by the time you'll pump up first T34, a pair of P4s will be on the field.

who says i need molo and at nades? and at guns can easily deal with any p4