Panther overnerfed

It still can almost Solo an IS2 in a Slugfest. It can take on an IS2 with kiting. If they buffed it much more it would be a 175 fuel tank that counters a 200 fuel tank and the top of the Soviet heavies...

Sounds like you want a non doctrinal IS2 hard counter.

The IS-2 is under-performing as well. The damage reduction from 240 to 160 was too much imo - even with decreased reload time.

Agreed. Drop fuel price on Panther to 140, and give the IS-2 it's old gun back (excluding the AOE vs Infantry) and more health.

Agreed. Drop fuel price on Panther to 140, and give the IS-2 it's old gun back (excluding the AOE vs Infantry) and more health.

Even if it went to 140 the Tech cost for T4 is punishingly high IMHO. I think the Tiger would still be used if it didnt see a CP increase.

Call-in tanks are another issue entirely, although they are related. I feel like if you set the Tiger back without changing T4 / Panther, then OH would just be at a disadvantage when facing T-34/85's, especially in pairs.

1 panther requires ~400 fuel.
Also t-34s can kill infantry.Secondly ..he too will have zis/guards,not just t-34s.
Thirdly....the teching price for germans will take up heavy MP drain,plus atleast one cache..if u make too much AT u will be overrun.Teching for sov is not as manpower intensive.

But one panther doesn't cost ~400 fuel.
Unless you know a way to put to combat these battle phases and tier buildings, the tiering cost isn't relevant when talking units performance, otherwise following that logic Panther should be able to two shoot old Tiger Ace.

Panther isn't really viable for 1v1, but then again, it never was in the first place.

support your panther = win.

the tiering cost isn't relevant when talking units performance

Then lets remove it.

Statwise is fine. Arriving time and fuel cost not so much.

Statwise is fine. Arriving time and fuel cost not so much.

Thats not really panthers fault itself.

Its because call-ins at and above 9cp are too cheap fuel wise.

But one panther doesn't cost ~400 fuel.
Unless you know a way to put to combat these battle phases and tier buildings, the tiering cost isn't relevant when talking units performance, otherwise following that logic Panther should be able to two shoot old Tiger Ace.

Panther isn't really viable for 1v1, but then again, it never was in the first place.

The tiering cost is relevant because without paying that i can't make the unit.No unit..no performance to speak of.
And no panther used to be viable for 1 vs 1,not the top choice for every game..but very viable.Now its almost non viable in any form.

Tiering cost is only indicator of time when unit should arrive, its not a direct indicator of its power and if you believe it is, please explain to me SU-76.

People need to stop comparing new Panther to the old Panther. Old Panther was too strong and easily able to get out of trouble, as well as take a lot of punishment.

Its a mobile turreted tank destroyer. It has decent armour and hp but you cannot expect to it to win like it used to before it was nerfed. Panthers still do very well against Soviet armour. Keep it at max or close to max range as possible, because soviet guns lack penetration at range to reliably penetrate the front of a Panther, while the Panther has no issues penetrating T-34's.

Not really sure why people are saying the Brumbar is useless, far from it. It deals with infantry very well, its pretty durable and still does reasonable damage vs Soviet armour.

Panzerwerfer is fairly useless but so is the Katushya. Panzerswerfer has been the superior unit for a very long time.

Panther maybe needs a slight cost adjustment but its not as bad as you guys make out. Stop wishing it was like it was before and relarn how to use it. To quote many German players from the March patch "Adapt". You should remember that for almost the entire game, Germany has had superior armour.

People need to stop comparing new Panther to the old Panther. Old Panther was too strong and easily able to get out of trouble, as well as take a lot of punishment.

Its a mobile turreted tank destroyer. It has decent armour and hp but you cannot expect to it to win like it used to before it was nerfed. Panthers still do very well against Soviet armour. Keep it at max or close to max range as possible, because soviet guns lack penetration at range to reliably penetrate the front of a Panther, while the Panther has no issues penetrating T-34's.

Not really sure why people are saying the Brumbar is useless, far from it. It deals with infantry very well, its pretty durable and still does reasonable damage vs Soviet armour.

Panzerwerfer is fairly useless but so is the Katushya. Panzerswerfer has been the superior unit for a very long time.

Panther maybe needs a slight cost adjustment but its not as bad as you guys make out. Stop wishing it was like it was before and relarn how to use it. To quote many German players from the March patch "Adapt". You should remember that for almost the entire game, Germany has had superior armour.

There's no adapting,since we never even get this unit due to cost.

There's no adapting,since we never even get this unit due to cost.

Then that is your issue but I build it quite often and put it to very good use.

Then that is your issue but I build it quite often and put it to very good use.

Well u might have some magic wand,rest of the lot just prefer tiger.

People need to stop comparing new Panther to the old Panther. Old Panther was too strong and easily able to get out of trouble, as well as take a lot of punishment.

Even if you don´t compare it to its old state, it currently is a unit that´s not worth its cost.

Keep it at max or close to max range as possible, because soviet guns lack penetration at range to reliably penetrate the front of a Panther, while the Panther has no issues penetrating T-34's.

The Panther can´t see this far. Thanks to truesight any German infantry spotting for it will get killed. Scopes are an option, but when the Russian tank blob is moving towards you and you have to hit the reverse button on your Panther, that´s also useless. The Panther can hardly make use of its 50 range - unlike the SU-85.

What's the health of a t-34/85?

What's the health of a t-34/85?

800

800

And do u know what's the health of a panther?800.

Given how easy and cheaper it is to obtain the 85s ,I rest my case.

And do u know what's the health of a panther?800.

Given how easy and cheaper it is to obtain the 85s ,I rest my case.

Panther has more range, more Armor, More Pen. Not apples to apples.