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russian armor

Teching and call ins.

6 Jun 2014, 00:10 AM
#21
avatar of -DAT- ErIstTotJim

Posts: 37

Call-ins are a tough call, maybe increasing their CPS might help. This could help encourage more use of the tech tree.


Pushing back the CP's isn't a good change imo.
Because a T34/85 on it's own won't have a great impact at 10 or 11 CP.
Teching to unlock it, that's something I like more.


and puma...and command p4...and mht...and...and...

only solution that makes sense - put Call-ins in tech-building
6 Jun 2014, 03:16 AM
#22
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

Why do people want this?


Limiting top Tier Call Ins to one per side I can sort of see because that is allegedly the way in worked in COH1 and an army that consists of 3 Tigers is kinda silly

Still don't think it is a good idea though.



However making Call In tanks need tech I don't see the reasoning?


6 Jun 2014, 03:26 AM
#23
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

Why do people want this?


Limiting top Tier Call Ins to one per side I can sort of see because that is allegedly the way in worked in COH1 and an army that consists of 3 Tigers is kinda silly

Still don't think it is a good idea though.



However making Call In tanks need tech I don't see the reasoning?




I hate the idea of limiting the number of heavy tanks. You end up with useless fuel, and vCoH Heavies used no fuel. If the enemy ends up with several heavies, then that is YOUR undoing. The thing is, some people dont use tier tanks and only call ins, so they get screwed over because they think the tank will save them when in fact they make the game be played stupidly and very unprofessionally.
6 Jun 2014, 08:46 AM
#24
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130


However making Call In tanks need tech I don't see the reasoning?


Because its killing the game. The only real doctrines that matter have all call in tanks. otherwise you putting yourself at a rather major disadvantage as your opponent can simply forgo tech and have far more fuel available for his tanks then you have for your non call in tanks.

This especially true for the kv1 t-34/85 and sherman which can easily replace the entire tier 3.

So any doctrine that doesnt have call in tanks are put at disadvantage and i really want to level the playing field between doctrines. this makes the game more fun as other doctrines and strategy's become available.
6 Jun 2014, 09:24 AM
#25
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

Agree to this idea. Germans should accomplish teching to T3 and soviets need to build T3 or T4 but only to have access to heavy call-ins. On the other hand, I don't think it's a good idea to put heavy call-ins a CP further.
6 Jun 2014, 10:03 AM
#26
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jun 2014, 08:46 AMJaigen


Because its killing the game. The only real doctrines that matter have all call in tanks. otherwise you putting yourself at a rather major disadvantage as your opponent can simply forgo tech and have far more fuel available for his tanks then you have for your non call in tanks.

This especially true for the kv1 t-34/85 and sherman which can easily replace the entire tier 3.

So any doctrine that doesnt have call in tanks are put at disadvantage and i really want to level the playing field between doctrines. this makes the game more fun as other doctrines and strategy's become available.


It's also completely killing the option to build howitzers outside of the Soviet counter attack doctrine and the German Joint operations doctrine. You just need to pour too much resources into countering the heavy tanks to ever be able to get a howitzer out.

6 Jun 2014, 10:13 AM
#27
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819



I hate the idea of limiting the number of heavy tanks. You end up with useless fuel, and vCoH Heavies used no fuel. If the enemy ends up with several heavies, then that is YOUR undoing.


Not always my friend.
A lot of games, the tiger rolls out and soviets are forced to retreat a bit.
Than that second tiger rolls out/elefant.

And than the shit begins, third tiger rolls out, second elefant, ..

It's not a matter of skill in 2v2's. It's not that because the opponent has 2 tigers, you played a bad game.
6 Jun 2014, 10:37 AM
#28
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

6 Jun 2014, 15:59 PM
#29
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Jun 2014, 23:10 PMJaigen


That only applies to the soviets t-34-76/85 .

So is Tiger, Tiger cost = BP3 + T3 + 1 PzIV
6 Jun 2014, 16:37 PM
#30
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 875 | Subs: 6

Heavy Tank call ins need to be delayed. I would suggest making them cost more fuel if Tier3 and/or aren't purchased. Or make each subsequent call in cost more fuel so they can't be spammed.

What would also help is if Soviets got a big reduction in the fuel cost to Tier3 and Tier4 after having built the other one, so tech swapping from Tier3 to 4 is actually possible so Soviets don't HAVE to depend on a doctrine specific late game tank call in.
8 Jun 2014, 00:30 AM
#33
avatar of pantherswag

Posts: 231

Having teching required for call-in is not a good idea IMO. The reason that call-ins cost extra fuel is because they do not require teching. If I have to tech to t4 to get a Tiger, why not just get a Panther instead for cheaper? It doesn't make sense.

Or even worse, why get a KV1 if I have a T3 building up anyway? T34s perform better in almost every way, for cheaper. The whole reason the KV1 has any value is because you can get it without investing in tech.
8 Jun 2014, 00:50 AM
#34
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053



A lot of games, the tiger rolls out and soviets are forced to retreat


Um... where are the soviet tanks and AT guns?

you played a bad game.


So you lose either way. If you werent able to deal with one Tiger, then two Tigers are there to further prove your failure. And if they had control of the fuel/large amounts of the map, then yes, it was a bad game and you have already lost.
8 Jun 2014, 00:56 AM
#35
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

Having teching required for call-in is not a good idea IMO. The reason that call-ins cost extra fuel is because they do not require teching. If I have to tech to t4 to get a Tiger, why not just get a Panther instead for cheaper? It doesn't make sense.

Or even worse, why get a KV1 if I have a T3 building up anyway? T34s perform better in almost every way, for cheaper. The whole reason the KV1 has any value is because you can get it without investing in tech.


They cost extra fuel because they are superior units. This also goes for the kv1 which basically is more durable t-34
8 Jun 2014, 01:26 AM
#36
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

I think the high prices of German medium-heavy tanks will be justified somewhat in the future when WFA comes out. I would think the panther will be more effective against American tanks than soviet ones. Soviets have heavies, and Americans dont. German tank on American tank, all you'll have to worry about are sherman spams or sneaky m36's, but they dont appear to have a lot of survivability. USF AT guns and bazookas are a different matter.
10 Jun 2014, 12:08 PM
#37
avatar of MrYippeeKiYay
Donator 11

Posts: 44 | Subs: 1

There are two solutions to this: 1. Increase the amount of CPs thats required to get a call-in tank. 2. Some sort of teching should be required before you can call in any tank.
But all this have been mentioned before...
10 Jun 2014, 13:25 PM
#38
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1162

The problem is that tecking to T3 does not come that much sooner than waiting for a Tiger or 34/85 in some situations, and if you wait the call in is much stronger.

Relic made tecking more expensive to extend the the early game and use of light vehicles.


Well what about reducing the cost to teck, but lowering the rate of fuel income?

This would put a more defined gap between T3 and call ins, yet still preserve the extended early game.
10 Jun 2014, 13:33 PM
#39
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jun 2014, 00:56 AMJaigen


They cost extra fuel because they are superior units. This also goes for the kv1 which basically is more durable t-34


Thank you for confirming yet again that last time you've seen soviets up close was during intro.

KV-1 at its current stats can deal only with P4 and even that is fully RNG based. Or in other words, P4 have MORE chance to win against KV-1 frontally, then T34/76 have to win against P4.

KV-1 is a slow, not at all durable(nerfed HP by a HUGE amount, KV-1 have less hp them T34/85, increased AT on everything) tank with a gun that belongs to flanking vehicle, yet its unable to flank anything.

In its current state, KV-1 is reliable only against an Ostwind and nothing more, while T34/76 is a game against all tanks due to its speed, so think again before calling it superior.

Now, when it comes to all other call-ins that actually ARE effective, instead of increasing their CP, which will change nothing, increase their fuel price so they can't be spammed as easily and loosing one can actually be felt instead pumping one tiger after another.
10 Jun 2014, 13:41 PM
#40
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819



Um... where are the soviet tanks and AT guns?



So you lose either way. If you werent able to deal with one Tiger, then two Tigers are there to further prove your failure. And if they had control of the fuel/large amounts of the map, then yes, it was a bad game and you have already lost.


You left out 'a bit' in my quote ;)
Dude, on semois, controlling the fuel isn't a real deal.
Argue with me when your sober and got a real thing to say.

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