Hands on Western Fronts Armies

Polygon, you were right about the Jagdpanzer IV.

It's 40 fuel less than the Panther with strong frontal armor and 60 range but it doesn't move fast enough to really keep up with USF armor. It doesn't have focus forward (mini map hacking), just Panther gun @ SU-85 range.

In Ohmwrecker's video it clearly shows how it kind of struggles to intercept the US tanks. But shots bounce off its front like the Panther's.

It would probably be better to hold out for a Panther vs. USF and maybe a Jadpanzer IV if Soviets are going T4.

Use a T34/85mm to shoot at an infantry squad => 95% they will retreat

Ues a Panther to shoot at an infantry squad => 95% will laugh at your face and keep moving.

It's not a a myth, it's a fact now that T34/85mm is doing way better anti-infantry compare to Panther ( Even after upgrade with Upper MG42 )

Comparing T34/85 to a panther we OBVIOUSLY do not talk AI potential.

Would you compare SU-76 to Tiger and get the final conclusion that Tiger is underpowered because it got 20 less range?

Then why are you trying to apply exactly the same flawed logic here?

Thanks Yoda. Are you going to apply your own standards to your passive-aggressive snark?

Be real, please. My text is direct, no passive aggression required.

This is a text based medium, nobody can see you rolling your eyes or whatever else crap you are doing as you type your "sarcastic" and barbed prejudicial ad hominem, nor cares about it.

Act like a bitch, and you will get regarded like one. Your choice, really.

Say what you mean, and mean what you say. Afterall, that is what language and communication is for.
No need to hide behind some farcical social filter, which is ultimately self-defeating anyways.

The majority doesnt give a damned about some veiled snarkiness, they just want content.
If you cant provide that, and have only the former, then perhaps you shouldnt post in the first place.
Nobody cares about how butthurt you are. Only about topic relevant discussion.

I issued some advice to the poster in question, because I think that is conducive to the poster he wants to be, and can be.
You attack me for that. Why? Some issue of your own, which frankly interests me not at all, and the readers of this thread, even less.

It may be incomprehensible to you, but my post to Katitiof (and not to you, though you chose to misrepresent and hijack it as if it was to you) is only what it says there. No paasive aggression, no snarkiness involved. Its direct, frank, and honest. He knows his stats, and the game, better than most, but he is letting himself be brought down by those that dont. That happens often when ypu post a lot, and care a lot. But thats the time to remember who, and what, it actually is that you care about.

Katitof can do better, and Im quite sure he wants to. Just shouldnt let the few idiots drag him down and reduce his quality.
Sorry if that upsets you, or causes you to act defensively, espcially when its not about you at all, but about him as a prolific and quite informed quality poster who I do not want to see reduced to the level of his antagonists.

Be real, please. My text is direct, no passive aggression required.

This is a text based medium, nobody can see you rolling your eyes or whatever else crap you are doing as you type your "sarcastic" and barbed prejudicial ad hominem, nor cares about it.

Act like a bitch, and you will get regarded like one. Your choice, really.

Say what you mean, and mean what you say. Afterall, that is what language and communication is for.
No need to hide behind some farcical social filter, which is ultimately self-defeating anyways.

The majority doesnt give a damned about some veiled snarkiness, they just want content.
If you cant provide that, and have only the former, then perhaps you shouldnt post in the first place.
Nobody cares about how butthurt you are. Only about topic relevant discussion.

I issued some advice to the poster in question, because I think that is conducive to the poster he wants to be, and can be.
You attack me for that. Why? Some issue of your own, which frankly interests me not at all, and the readers of this thread, even less.

I agree, Sherman is a bit underpowered

He's managed to get every single internet debate cliche in there too. He also ignores his own advice about 'not rising to it.'

I'm just getting into my lolocopter and going for quick spin around the block.

[code][/code]

He also ignores his own advice about 'not rising to it..

Bad bait, is bad.

"I was only pretending to be a retard"
Pretty much.

I think this is a case in point, and, closed.

Returning to topic:

Expansion looks great, in a number of ways.
New maps, new units, 2 new factions and even a better UI.

The Dev team has certainly done its work, though marketing may have flubbed a bit.
I was ok with preordering, not just for the akins, but to support Relic due to my better understanding of whats coming thanks to the community casts finally released on it.

Also nice to see no Commander gimmicks prompting initial purpose, which has been a problem in the past.
Its ok to make mistakes. Not so much to repeat them, and inleast in that regard, Relic learned from that.

Now we just need all the oldcore vCoH expats back and holy shit, we might just have a serious and not so niche RTS!

How much is the obersoladaten (both in MP and pop cap)? What are its abilities?

How much HP does the Jackson have? 640 ish?

Panther vs. Jackson- the end result is LOL. 35:00 onward

How much is the obersoladaten (both in MP and pop cap)? What are its abilities?

400 MP, i think they may booby trap points, unless that is doctrinal.

^^
They are the top infantry of the faction. They must have some sort of explosive ability (grenade?) or weapons upgrade

The Jackson's penetration is somewhere in Tiger/is-2 territory. That penetrating blow to the Panther's front did either 160 or 240 damage. (?)

^^
They are the top infantry of the faction. They must have some sort of explosive ability (grenade?) or weapons upgrade

The Jackson's penetration is somewhere in Tiger/is-2 territory. That penetrating blow to the Panther's front did either 160 or 240 damage. (?)

It did huge amounts of damage, but obviously it cant deflect anything. You have to have some sort of blocker unit to defend it or it can get flanked by a panther and get in some real trouble.

Comparing T34/85 to a panther we OBVIOUSLY do not talk AI potential.

Would you compare SU-76 to Tiger and get the final conclusion that Tiger is underpowered because it got 20 less range?

Then why are you trying to apply exactly the same flawed logic here?

You have take in account all the merits of a tank not just one when you discuss efficieny. so i dont understand your logic.

The King Tiger's turret and etc. are so slow that it might as well be considered a heavy assault Gun.

Panther gets knocked out after 4 hits. Jackson takes 3 and gets knocked out.

You have take in account all the merits of a tank not just one when you discuss efficieny. so i dont understand your logic.

So don't ignore actually meaningful pintle(it does more then you make it sound), don't ignore its armor, don't ignore its range and its penetration.

I'm sick of these double standard comparisons, you guys will make flawed, biased selective comparisons focusing on ger unit weaknesses, completely ignoring the strengths only to enhance your inaccurate one sided opinions.

I swear we WILL have a "Tiger up compared to SU-76 because range" qq thread eventually, because this is the direction you take regardless of how illogical or plain silly you sound, you'll stick to it like it was some holy artifact or ancient scroll of knowledge.

Ive noticed... in the video with Brad's panther, the panther ACTUALLY squashed units, as in, they didnt dodge the panther like supermen. They just died... Panther heavy crush can now be useful without the need of old blitz?

So don't ignore actually meaningful pintle(it does more then you make it sound), don't ignore its armor, don't ignore its range and its penetration.

No its decent and prolonged fire does nice damage but every single shot form the t-34-85 has potential to wipe out half a squad.

I'm guessing that the Jackson does maybe 200 or 240 damage and its HP is 480.

Comparing T34/85 to a panther we OBVIOUSLY do not talk AI potential.

Would you compare SU-76 to Tiger and get the final conclusion that Tiger is underpowered because it got 20 less range?

Then why are you trying to apply exactly the same flawed logic here?

Before we get into this talk, let's remember the description : These are both Medium Tank ( same category )

Compare the price of the T34/85mm and Panther, we can see that even as a " non doctrine tank ", it still takes so much fuel just make one. If German player choose to go Panther then by the time he got his 1st panther ( also no call in cause ain't nobody got fuel for that ) , Russian will have double T34/85mm.

Now about the effective : ( in my opinion )

T34/85mm:
Anti-infantry : 7/10 ||| Anti-tank : 7/10

Panther:
Anti-infantry : 3/10 ||| Anti-tank : 8/10

A T34/85mm it's something to make enemy tank and infantry fear about. You try to run into a T34/85mm to faust ? Expect that squad to be wiped out.

A Panther maybe fearsome against tank but the AI is very bad. It's so bad that Conscript will keep running to throw sticky bomb without fear.


My only problem with this tank is after so much fuel you pay for it, you only have a mobility AT gun that have shit AI. Compare the Russian he can just wait until 9CP to get more and more T34/85mm that can fuck both your tank and your troops up ( My experience in 1vs1 and 2vs2 ).

All I ever want with this tank is that if you gonna make it so pricey, please make it have good anti-infantry as the T34/85mm. We invest too much money for this tank ( As OKW and Ostheer ) and it's just not good for the price.

Not just me, a lot of people also support my opinion


Quote vietnamabc

" True true, if only Panther can hit tank reliably at max range. Relic should reduce Panther's scatter. For a high velocity AT gun, it misses an awful lot of times + awful AI capabilities = resources sink. "

Quote austerlitz

"
Still it IS better DPS for a tank that costs 110 MP and 45 fucking fuel more,even without teching.Same health,speed.Way better AI for 85.Only thing panther got going is armor..it insane penetration is overkill and useless.It would have been far more useful with higher dps and penetration at 200.

Compare the diff between a panzer 4 and t-34/85 which costs only 40 mp and 15 fuel more but is vastly superior.
Now compare panther to t-85 and despite 110 mp and 45 fuel diff,the payoff in relative performance is far lower. "

Quote Jaigen

" No its decent and prolonged fire does nice damage but every single shot form the t-34-85 has potential to wipe out half a squad. "

It's like a hit and run sort of unit like the old Firefly. I think it's best be used in pairs for AT work against heavy german armor. I'm thinking infantry to spot for it and then it gets called in as a mobile reserve. (shermans are too valuable to waste)


However, how is its AI I wonder. The 90mm shell was good for both AT (around Tiger I pen) and AI. Unlike the SU-85, it might have respectable AI but we haven't seen it yet.

It did huge amounts of damage, but obviously it cant deflect anything. You have to have some sort of blocker unit to defend it or it can get flanked by a panther and get in some real trouble.

I'm sick of these double standard comparisons, you guys will make flawed, biased selective comparisons focusing on ger unit weaknesses, completely ignoring the strengths only to enhance your inaccurate one sided opinions..

I tried to warn you, but you are now doing exactly this in respects of ignoring T34s AI efficacy.

T34 cannot, and never will be, an exact equivalent for the PIV, as long as its stats dont COMPLETELY match it, in all regards.

The slack in AT is compensated for in AI.
I dont understand what is so difficult to accept about, especially in a game with qssymetric faction alignment.

Ok, so obersoldaten also have a bundled grenade, the caustic smoke grenade like the fallshirmjagers (vet ability), and they also seem to be able to booby-trap points. Their lmg34 doesnt seem that lackluster either.

So... the infrared-scoped stg44's do damage that ignore cover modifiers? So units in green cover get shot as if they were in no cover; someone explain to me how this weapon works.

Panzerfusiliers and fallshirmjagers both have panzerfausts, i believe, and they both harrass infantry very well.

The doctrinal flak defences have two men crews? Isnt that just snipable, or are they immune to snipes?