t-34/76 + SU-85 combo would be INSANELY INSALELY OP....
The soviet faction is not unfinished.
You go either T1 and T4 or T2 and T3 or T2 and T4 (t1 t3 not good because no real anti tank) and you get a doctrine to fill in the gaps.
This is never going to happen. Sorry, but just because you want soviets to be a copy of amerincans in Vcoh doesn't mean soviet are unfinished.
T-70 is better againts INF than the t-34. Its good if you have a map control advantage and you can finish the game off fairly quickly.
Soviet Revision.
29 May 2014, 17:20 PM
#21
Posts: 1702
29 May 2014, 17:28 PM
#22
Posts: 598
"Solutions": not worth to answer since we all know at this stage is strange to see a unit swap from tiers.
Problem M3:
Cover - don´t chase M3.
Houses - there´s no flamer till 60muni
MG - that´s how you stop an M3.
Faust - don´t faust unless you are sure you can kill it or you have something to follow it up.
Spreading - that´s the worst thing you can do against it.
Cover and Houses =/= territory.
Spreading: Which you should do to gain territory in Company of Heroes. Normally the way I grab territory is have a couple units moving forward to grab territory when I have a weapon protecting them. However, with the M3 scout car I don't have that weapon to protect them other than the panzerfaust which all it can do is prevent immediate squad wipes but the problem of dueling with the car and losing manpower is still there, even when the unit is in cover.
MG: I already gave a reason why that's not a good counter.
Even the M3 stays and do nothing it can potentially tie down a much bigger force because of it's dps and mobility. Think about it, if the Germans tries to advance at all the M3 will just back out and dps them forcing the Germans to retreat while the M3 just gets repaired. The presence of the M3 just prevents a sizable Germans from advancing and as you said before spreading is the worst thing you can do against it, so there is no harassing from the German side.
29 May 2014, 17:29 PM
#23
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
t-34/76 + SU-85 combo would be INSANELY INSALELY OP....
Yeah because that is totally different from the SU-85 + T34/85 or Sherman. IT'S THE MOST OP THING EVER OMG OMG.
29 May 2014, 17:36 PM
#24
Posts: 1702
you stick your forces together if your opponent goes M3, your opponent sacrifices some map control by going M3, you sacrifice some map control by keeping your forces together.
29 May 2014, 17:38 PM
#25
Posts: 598
The soviet faction is not unfinished.
This is never going to happen. Sorry, but just because you want soviets to be a copy of amerincans in Vcoh doesn't mean soviet are unfinished.
T-70 is better againts INF than the t-34. Its good if you have a map control advantage and you can finish the game off fairly quickly.
The Soviet faction doesn't need to be a copy of the Americans, I just perfer it not to be a gimmicky, poorly designed faction. Also, Relic made the Soviet faction more American than I wanted it to be, like being forced to pay for your grenades. That's there simply because the Americans did it, not because it's a good idea.
T70 is good against infantry, but using it means that it you were already winning in the early game because you are confident that the enemy doesn't have any AT. T34 also does a great job against infantry anyways. It's a more durable tank that can kill more infantry per shot anyways right?
In my post I didn't say the T70 was shit. I already made my point which you apparently ignored.
29 May 2014, 18:14 PM
#26
Posts: 322
I'm not gonna lie but I never found a problem with T70. It does what it does.
It would be best to move T70 into tier 4 and Su76 into Tier 3. Best balance for Russian ever. It kinda awkward to get T70 when you can just spend a little more fuel for a T34.
But switch that with Su76 in tier 4 ? Trust me, T70 will be use by everybody. Remember how 222 used to be a unit that no one love ?
But M3 Scout car is a little different. A good player can micro that shit out of you.
It would be best to move T70 into tier 4 and Su76 into Tier 3. Best balance for Russian ever. It kinda awkward to get T70 when you can just spend a little more fuel for a T34.
But switch that with Su76 in tier 4 ? Trust me, T70 will be use by everybody. Remember how 222 used to be a unit that no one love ?
But M3 Scout car is a little different. A good player can micro that shit out of you.
30 May 2014, 21:52 PM
#27
7 
Posts: 1664
I'm not gonna lie but I never found a problem with T70. It does what it does.
It would be best to move T70 into tier 4 and Su76 into Tier 3. Best balance for Russian ever. It kinda awkward to get T70 when you can just spend a little more fuel for a T34.
But switch that with Su76 in tier 4 ? Trust me, T70 will be use by everybody. Remember how 222 used to be a unit that no one love ?
But M3 Scout car is a little different. A good player can micro that shit out of you.
Huge +1 for the T70/SU76 switch. This was discussed thoroughly before and it makes sense to me. This give both tiers an assault gun and a turreted vehicle instead of mashing like-types together.
I use the Mg42 10% exp and 10% faster reload bulletins most of the time in anticipation of M3 play since Incendiary Rounds are totally devastating against light armor (and infantry.) I also build a 2nd Mg42 if the opponent fields multiple cars.
I would like to see the T70 get 5-10% extra penetration with veterancy two so it isn't obsoleted by Ostheer tier three.
31 May 2014, 04:46 AM
#28
Posts: 522
Watching the US and OKW trailers I realised how nice it would be if Soviets had some proper infantry instead of conscripts and penals. Where are the regular Soviet troops? I propose a redesign of the Soviet faction since currently it is quite gimmicky. Make penals call in and maybe add soviet marines? 
31 May 2014, 05:54 AM
#29
7 Posts: 1664
Watching the US and OKW trailers I realised how nice it would be if Soviets had some proper infantry instead of conscripts and penals. Where are the regular Soviet troops? I propose a redesign of the Soviet faction since currently it is quite gimmicky. Make penals call in and maybe add soviet marines?
While I anticipate seeing new Soviet and Ostheer units eventually, I think the release of Western Fronts will emphasize the Soviets ability to hard-counter strategies and be even more like the Zerg from Starcraft where we aren't really worried about having really powerful units, but having specialized and massed counters.
31 May 2014, 05:59 AM
#30
Posts: 1702
While I anticipate seeing new Soviet and Ostheer units eventually, I think the release of Western Fronts will emphasize the Soviets ability to hard-counter strategies and be even more like the Zerg from Starcraft where we aren't really worried about having really powerful units, but having specialized and massed counters.
I think the soviets are still going to be the number one faction which everyone complains thats its OP or UP.
Even in death, comrade stalin ensures that soviet peoples are happy about balance situation.
31 May 2014, 06:12 AM
#31
Posts: 1571
The thing is, I saw the prices for the US infantry in the twitch and they are @ 250 to 300. US infantry is not expensive at all and unlike Soviet infantry, they are flexible in their upgrades for 60 muni. (eg. bars, bazooka, or 30 cal.) so you pay for what you want.
Since I assume that the garand is better than the K98, I think their infantry is a better value than either ostheer or soviets.
They seemed to lack close quarters, point blank guys like Panzergrens, assault grens, PPSH conscripts and shock troops.
The only SMG troops I have seen are doctrinal: the Paras (which have the option for long range weapons upgrades instead) and the Armor doctrine list has this 'assault engineers' which is armed with grease guns.
Since I assume that the garand is better than the K98, I think their infantry is a better value than either ostheer or soviets.
They seemed to lack close quarters, point blank guys like Panzergrens, assault grens, PPSH conscripts and shock troops.
The only SMG troops I have seen are doctrinal: the Paras (which have the option for long range weapons upgrades instead) and the Armor doctrine list has this 'assault engineers' which is armed with grease guns.
31 May 2014, 18:03 PM
#32
Posts: 1063
Rifleman with Bar + MG is more than enough for CQC, and I think Garand will be like SVT, good at close, meh at range.
31 May 2014, 18:09 PM
#33
Posts: 65
I always tought M3s were fine, but after watching Cataclaw use them a couple times it made me think otherwise, being well microed they become a total unstoppable beast.
One of these days Cataclaw destroyed Jesulin in less than 10 minutes by doing good use of M3s, two games in a row(in the second one Jesulin did better but still lost 70% of the map early).
Once more people get a grip on how to micro it properly, it will become a huge issue, theres nothing ostheer can to about it except hug all units togheter, but then the soviets have a free ticket to cap the rest of the map.
Sincerely, I dont know what can be done to nerf them without making them useless in the hands of a mid-skilled player...
One of these days Cataclaw destroyed Jesulin in less than 10 minutes by doing good use of M3s, two games in a row(in the second one Jesulin did better but still lost 70% of the map early).
Once more people get a grip on how to micro it properly, it will become a huge issue, theres nothing ostheer can to about it except hug all units togheter, but then the soviets have a free ticket to cap the rest of the map.
Sincerely, I dont know what can be done to nerf them without making them useless in the hands of a mid-skilled player...
31 May 2014, 18:38 PM
#34
Posts: 1571
Rifleman with Bar + MG is more than enough for CQC, and I think Garand will be like SVT, good at close, meh at range.
This is also why I am looking forward to US Infantry. Pretty much if you need a certain type of infantry that fits your strats, you can get them with US. I can see US infantry getting a lot of bazookas late game.
31 May 2014, 19:03 PM
#35
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Cover and Houses =/= territory.
Spreading: Which you should do to gain territory in Company of Heroes. Normally the way I grab territory is have a couple units moving forward to grab territory when I have a weapon protecting them. However, with the M3 scout car I don't have that weapon to protect them other than the panzerfaust which all it can do is prevent immediate squad wipes but the problem of dueling with the car and losing manpower is still there, even when the unit is in cover.
MG: I already gave a reason why that's not a good counter.
Even the M3 stays and do nothing it can potentially tie down a much bigger force because of it's dps and mobility. Think about it, if the Germans tries to advance at all the M3 will just back out and dps them forcing the Germans to retreat while the M3 just gets repaired. The presence of the M3 just prevents a sizable Germans from advancing and as you said before spreading is the worst thing you can do against it, so there is no harassing from the German side.
Cover = Territory (situational). If you are able to use houses use them (perfect for the first 1-2 minutes when you don´t have yet munition for a faust).
MG: you don´t "spam" MG. You just use 1 to support your army instead of going full gren spam.
Spreading: sometimes slower, is faster. If you spread too thin early game, you might not be able to fight against similar MP army on one side meaning you are going to retreat losing staying power.
I have never seeing the germans (besides Assault Grens) as a heavy harrasing faction, in the sense of multiple flanking attacks (early game).
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
31 May 2014, 20:51 PM
#36
Posts: 598
MG: you don´t "spam" MG. You just use 1 to support your army instead of going full gren spam.
Spreading: sometimes slower, is faster. If you spread too thin early game, you might not be able to fight against similar MP army on one side meaning you are going to retreat losing staying power.
I have never seeing the germans (besides Assault Grens) as a heavy harrasing faction, in the sense of multiple flanking attacks (early game).
What makes you think I spam MGs? Even if you make one that MG would just end up being useless against scout cars. It's a lot easier to lose them then actually make full use of them, and they are alot more durable in Soviet hands, which is why you see players going for gren spam so often.
Either way it still doesn't change the problem. M3 kill some infantry, then it retreats, gets repaired and come back, tying up a more MP army from advancing.
It doesn't matter if I don't spread too thin either, the scout car will just fuck it up as usual. You can try to tactially move your way through without spreading too far and the car will still do it's damage. As I said before, there is no counter till t2.
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