Soviet Forward HQ is completely broken.

Now, obviously this is not something that is seen often, as it's a paid commander, but I think this is completely unfair.

The forward HQ as many of you know comes with the soviet Urban Defense doctrine. It can be set up in any building and re-enforces / heals your troops inside.

I recently encountered this on Moscow Outskirts. I have uploaded the replay here:

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  0

  VS

  SUPATURK(twitch.tv/supaturk93) Southland

  King Tiger Who Dat

  Soviet Forward HQ is broken.

  by: Flyingsmonster map: Moscow Outskirts

  7

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All that is required is 300mp and 60 fuel, which means if they spam conscripts it works perfectly, as long as they wait a little while to get molotovs / at nades.

It also unlocks at 0cp for some reason, which means they can do this as soon as the battle starts, which to me does not make sense at all. It should at least be 2CP to setup.

Please give it a watch. Notice how I took out one of his early conscript squads, but that did not matter. As soon as he enters the building, poof, the HQ pops into play. It is not possible to counter this strategy, especially if they get the HQ up on a cutoff point. Yet, nothing has been done. Relic has not patched this in ages, and I think it's time for a change.

Germans have no counter to these buildings, aside from endless mortar barrages that miss 50% of the time, or a pio flamer, which requires your pios survive the squads surrounding the house and get 6+ flame shots off on it (unlikely unless they aren't guarding their forward HQ...)

Pios cannot set demolitions without the right commander. Rifle Grenades aren't really a counter, but they still won't unlock till T2. Flame HT is not until T3, another counter not available. SCs are T2, but unless the Soviet player is a moron, he will have AT grenades by then.

So, let's see, what exactly could a german player do to counter this forward HQ? Nothing.

So, essentially, the German player has no counter to this building in the early stages of the game. How this has not been fixed yet is a complete mystery to me, considering this commander has been available for quite some time.

The buildings die incredibly easy, making a forward HQ is usually a waste of fuel. Mortars work just fine to counter it. I watched the replay, your partner got dominated on his side and you got outmicroed in the first few engagements. That thing goes down in less than 2 minutes of mortar fire, but you couldn't even hold the territory right outside of your base long enough to use the mortar.

The reason you don't see this very often is because it is simply not that good. Mortar fire will bring it down quickly, and its a risky investment given its fragile nature.

Now, obviously this is not something that is seen often, as it's a paid commander, but I think this is completely unfair.

The forward HQ as many of you know comes with the soviet Urban Defense doctrine. It can be set up in any building and re-enforces / heals your troops inside.

I recently encountered this on Moscow Outskirts. I have uploaded the replay here:

•  
  

  0

  VS

  SUPATURK(twitch.tv/supaturk93) Southland

  King Tiger Who Dat

  Soviet Forward HQ is broken.

  by: Flyingsmonster map: Moscow Outskirts

  7

  -

All that is required is 300mp and 60 fuel, which means if they spam conscripts it works perfectly, as long as they wait a little while to get molotovs / at nades.

It also unlocks at 0cp for some reason, which means they can do this as soon as the battle starts, which to me does not make sense at all. It should at least be 2CP to setup.

Please give it a watch. Notice how I took out one of his early conscript squads, but that did not matter. As soon as he enters the building, poof, the HQ pops into play. It is not possible to counter this strategy, especially if they get the HQ up on a cutoff point. Yet, nothing has been done. Relic has not patched this in ages, and I think it's time for a change.

Germans have no counter to these buildings, aside from endless mortar barrages that miss 50% of the time, or a pio flamer, which requires your pios survive the squads surrounding the house and get 6+ flame shots off on it (unlikely unless they aren't guarding their forward HQ...)

Pios cannot set demolitions without the right commander. Rifle Grenades aren't really a counter, but they still won't unlock till T2. Flame HT is not until T3, another counter not available. SCs are T2, but unless the Soviet player is a moron, he will have AT grenades by then.

So, let's see, what exactly could a german player do to counter this forward HQ? Nothing.

So, essentially, the German player has no counter to this building in the early stages of the game. How this has not been fixed yet is a complete mystery to me, considering this commander has been available for quite some time.

The last time I encountered forward HQ my mgs pinned everything and my grens just did a mop up and bye bye. Assault Support Doctrine also helps pin the troops. Now what's funny about this is that he didnt retreat and kept reinforcing until his mortars hit my grens and made them retreat. I had a halftrack to reinforce my mgs so the mortars didnt matter to them. But since he didn't retreat his cons I got alot of CP from killing the models and was able to call in a tiger lol. Pretty much like a classic brit base pin from vcoh in which wehrmacht spammed mgs in brit HQ and pinned them.

I have only encountered it once. I lost to it because I didn't know what was going on at first and didn't think on my feet fast enough to realize what to do. I focussed on shelling the support teams and then flanking but of course they reinforced. In retrospect I should have shelled the building directly.

Copypasta:

Lol Skill difference too much maybe?

MHT? 4/5 attack ground with flamer? Going to the other side and capitalizing they spend 60 fuel on that building?

Always funny when people see something for first time, fail to adapt and start blaming thing they saw instead themselves.

Yes, forward hq is very powerful ability, BUT:
1)It comes in one doctrine, with 2 totally useless abilities (armor detection/crappy at gun) and no late game potential.
2)It costs 60 damn fuel, which not only punishes teching very hard, but also denies at nades/mollys to cons.
3)Atop of huge fuel cost it also costs 300mp, meaning impossibility to have at gun in time, thus making forward hq incredibly vulnerable to rushed armored cars.


And of course, there is plenty of counters. You can just ignore forward HQ zone, cap map around and destroy it with tanks later. Build mortar, place it behind hedge in order to protect from sov mortar, cover with something and enjoy free vet, hq building also often collapse after 3-4 barrages. You may, as mentioned before, just rush t2 and beat crap out of everything around forward hq. And, above all, you can burn it to the ground with any form of fire damage.

I've struggled against this a bit myself, mostly because I expected to be able to decap the building (like in vCOH) and got wiped out. I've never used it as a Soviet but I think for 400mp/60fu it's fine. The only thing I would change is to be able to decap the building, I have no idea why you can't.

Its fun to play against because its a meat grinder I end up with a huge KD ratio.

The FHQ has no late game punch and will go down fairly easily to flames. One flame barrage w/ a mortar HT pretty much neuters the entire commander. 60 fuel is a TON, so if you don't capitalize on the FHQ early in the game you pretty much don't have a chance.

I just built 2 mortars and made them attack the building until it broke.

I took it on in a 2v2 context so it wasn't quite so easy when in a 1v1 it means no AT, no mollies/At nades etc to start with. And it's not like scout cars have uber armor anyway especially facing down MGs in buildings and such.

I think the OP definitely has a point there.

I can see that the forward hq won't get you much in 1v1 but in 2v2 it's a different story.

T1-guards with t2-FHQ is a very strong combination on maps like Moscow or Rails & Metal.
Vehicles will hav a hard day against just a single guardsquad defending the hq. Mortars are very vulnerable to countermortar and flanking consquads and you'll also sacrifice a lot of mobility.
Capping the other half of the map leaves you open to cutoffs and flanks.

After all I found the best way to deal with it is to doublteam attack the FHQ the moment they build it and hope to drive them back so your flamer pio can burn it down or if you fail with that getting one or two mortar halftracks. The MHT's high mobilty make it less vulnerable to flanks and counterbarrages and you don't necessarily need a unit to babysit it, although watch out for gurad clowncars.

In 2v2 and up, it's super effective.
On maps like Angermunde or Rostov, it's locking down centers in a very early stage of the map.
On big buildings it's a pain in the ass, specially when the buildings are made of stone.

in 1v1, it sets you back enormously because it's 60fuel. It means no t1 or t2 start and a late t3 or t4.
Think about that. Focus on the other side of the map, shift his attention and wait for that MHT to incendiary barage the forward HQ. There are always 2 fuelpoints, focus on the other one.

When the opponent locks down 1 side, it means he isn't that strong on the other.
Cut him off, go for VP's, divert his attention while preparing a strong attack on the forward HQ.
Remember he is 60 fuel short because of the building, use it to your advantage.

In 2v2 and up, it's super effective.
On maps like Angermunde or Rostov, it's locking down centers in a very early stage of the map.
I don't ever use it in 1v1.

Its fun if your team mate can spare you a mortar or 120mm to help you defend it 45mm AT guns are somewhat decent while under the buff aura.

Pre-FHQ nerf the 45mm guns where absolutely evil. Unkillable (because of the constant reinforcing) and did the same damage as a ZiS-3 with the same RoF... those were the days...

The most effective way to shut down the FHQ is the Mortar HT. One incendiary round has a pretty good chance of setting the whole building on fire and all your resources go down the drain.

60 fuel is pretty much, and you can burn it with the single flame shell of MHT. Also, FB commander have no elite infantry, DSHK, call-in tanks.

On 2v2 semoise I encounter this everytime.

You know what I did in that piece of shit game? I went Close Air doc and bombed almost every damn building, EACH ONE A FORWARD HQ.

With all types of blobs around it, I was conscript blobbed, guard blobbed, shock, MG, AT blobbed. Mostly at the same time.


Close Air support is like flying pest control to me.

In the large maps I generally play it is most useful on Agermunde.

That often turns into a motor battle and being able to reinforce larger squad sizes and not needing to retreat is very helpful.


Also Angermunde is narrow and dense and I've been on the recieving end of leapfrogging FHQs pushing down the side.

Rostov it's also useful, because the decisive area is the town and that is really far away from the spawn spots.


That said, everything else you get from the Commander is pretty meh:

2CP 45mm Pea shooter

4CP Armoured Vehicle Detection

6CP Boobytrap

7CP Incendiry Barrage


Only one of those is really any good and by the time you can launch Incendiry Barrages the list of things that can kill an FHQ is very long.

In the early game the Germans basically have:

Mortars (but because of the FHQ will usually come off worst in such an exchange)

MHTs

MHTs with Incen (which will, as noted mess up the support weapons and possible set fire to the building)

222s and FHTs



Or ignore it and go somewhere else, then come back when you have things that can kill it.


It is useful as part of a concerted strategy in the early to mid game, but it doesn't have anything that can scale into the late game.

Yeah as soon as you see it try go cap the rest of the map, ignore it. They want to fight around and near it, not be drawn away. You will have numbers advantage thanks to the cost of the FHQ.

At the same time bombard the building with a mortar.