Soviet Forward HQ is completely broken.
Posts: 155
The forward HQ as many of you know comes with the soviet Urban Defense doctrine. It can be set up in any building and re-enforces / heals your troops inside.
I recently encountered this on Moscow Outskirts. I have uploaded the replay here:
All that is required is 300mp and 60 fuel, which means if they spam conscripts it works perfectly, as long as they wait a little while to get molotovs / at nades.
It also unlocks at 0cp for some reason, which means they can do this as soon as the battle starts, which to me does not make sense at all. It should at least be 2CP to setup.
Please give it a watch. Notice how I took out one of his early conscript squads, but that did not matter. As soon as he enters the building, poof, the HQ pops into play. It is not possible to counter this strategy, especially if they get the HQ up on a cutoff point. Yet, nothing has been done. Relic has not patched this in ages, and I think it's time for a change.
Germans have no counter to these buildings, aside from endless mortar barrages that miss 50% of the time, or a pio flamer, which requires your pios survive the squads surrounding the house and get 6+ flame shots off on it (unlikely unless they aren't guarding their forward HQ...)
Pios cannot set demolitions without the right commander. Rifle Grenades aren't really a counter, but they still won't unlock till T2. Flame HT is not until T3, another counter not available. SCs are T2, but unless the Soviet player is a moron, he will have AT grenades by then.
So, let's see, what exactly could a german player do to counter this forward HQ? Nothing.
So, essentially, the German player has no counter to this building in the early stages of the game. How this has not been fixed yet is a complete mystery to me, considering this commander has been available for quite some time.
Posts: 783 | Subs: 3
Posts: 889 | Subs: 1
Posts: 1248
Now, obviously this is not something that is seen often, as it's a paid commander, but I think this is completely unfair.
The forward HQ as many of you know comes with the soviet Urban Defense doctrine. It can be set up in any building and re-enforces / heals your troops inside.
I recently encountered this on Moscow Outskirts. I have uploaded the replay here:
All that is required is 300mp and 60 fuel, which means if they spam conscripts it works perfectly, as long as they wait a little while to get molotovs / at nades.
It also unlocks at 0cp for some reason, which means they can do this as soon as the battle starts, which to me does not make sense at all. It should at least be 2CP to setup.
Please give it a watch. Notice how I took out one of his early conscript squads, but that did not matter. As soon as he enters the building, poof, the HQ pops into play. It is not possible to counter this strategy, especially if they get the HQ up on a cutoff point. Yet, nothing has been done. Relic has not patched this in ages, and I think it's time for a change.
Germans have no counter to these buildings, aside from endless mortar barrages that miss 50% of the time, or a pio flamer, which requires your pios survive the squads surrounding the house and get 6+ flame shots off on it (unlikely unless they aren't guarding their forward HQ...)
Pios cannot set demolitions without the right commander. Rifle Grenades aren't really a counter, but they still won't unlock till T2. Flame HT is not until T3, another counter not available. SCs are T2, but unless the Soviet player is a moron, he will have AT grenades by then.
So, let's see, what exactly could a german player do to counter this forward HQ? Nothing.
So, essentially, the German player has no counter to this building in the early stages of the game. How this has not been fixed yet is a complete mystery to me, considering this commander has been available for quite some time.
The last time I encountered forward HQ my mgs pinned everything and my grens just did a mop up and bye bye. Assault Support Doctrine also helps pin the troops. Now what's funny about this is that he didnt retreat and kept reinforcing until his mortars hit my grens and made them retreat. I had a halftrack to reinforce my mgs so the mortars didnt matter to them. But since he didn't retreat his cons I got alot of CP from killing the models and was able to call in a tiger lol. Pretty much like a classic brit base pin from vcoh in which wehrmacht spammed mgs in brit HQ and pinned them.
Posts: 1026
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Lol Skill difference too much maybe?
MHT? 4/5 attack ground with flamer? Going to the other side and capitalizing they spend 60 fuel on that building?
Posts: 1122
Yes, forward hq is very powerful ability, BUT:
1)It comes in one doctrine, with 2 totally useless abilities (armor detection/crappy at gun) and no late game potential.
2)It costs 60 damn fuel, which not only punishes teching very hard, but also denies at nades/mollys to cons.
3)Atop of huge fuel cost it also costs 300mp, meaning impossibility to have at gun in time, thus making forward hq incredibly vulnerable to rushed armored cars.
And of course, there is plenty of counters. You can just ignore forward HQ zone, cap map around and destroy it with tanks later. Build mortar, place it behind hedge in order to protect from sov mortar, cover with something and enjoy free vet, hq building also often collapse after 3-4 barrages. You may, as mentioned before, just rush t2 and beat crap out of everything around forward hq. And, above all, you can burn it to the ground with any form of fire damage.
Posts: 117
Posts: 589
Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2
Posts: 4928
Posts: 1026
Posts: 747
I can see that the forward hq won't get you much in 1v1 but in 2v2 it's a different story.
T1-guards with t2-FHQ is a very strong combination on maps like Moscow or Rails & Metal.
Vehicles will hav a hard day against just a single guardsquad defending the hq. Mortars are very vulnerable to countermortar and flanking consquads and you'll also sacrifice a lot of mobility.
Capping the other half of the map leaves you open to cutoffs and flanks.
After all I found the best way to deal with it is to doublteam attack the FHQ the moment they build it and hope to drive them back so your flamer pio can burn it down or if you fail with that getting one or two mortar halftracks. The MHT's high mobilty make it less vulnerable to flanks and counterbarrages and you don't necessarily need a unit to babysit it, although watch out for gurad clowncars.
Posts: 2819
On maps like Angermunde or Rostov, it's locking down centers in a very early stage of the map.
On big buildings it's a pain in the ass, specially when the buildings are made of stone.
in 1v1, it sets you back enormously because it's 60fuel. It means no t1 or t2 start and a late t3 or t4.
Think about that. Focus on the other side of the map, shift his attention and wait for that MHT to incendiary barage the forward HQ. There are always 2 fuelpoints, focus on the other one.
When the opponent locks down 1 side, it means he isn't that strong on the other.
Cut him off, go for VP's, divert his attention while preparing a strong attack on the forward HQ.
Remember he is 60 fuel short because of the building, use it to your advantage.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
In 2v2 and up, it's super effective.
On maps like Angermunde or Rostov, it's locking down centers in a very early stage of the map.
I don't ever use it in 1v1.
Its fun if your team mate can spare you a mortar or 120mm to help you defend it 45mm AT guns are somewhat decent while under the buff aura.
Posts: 1042
The most effective way to shut down the FHQ is the Mortar HT. One incendiary round has a pretty good chance of setting the whole building on fire and all your resources go down the drain.
Posts: 155
Posts: 172
You know what I did in that piece of shit game? I went Close Air doc and bombed almost every damn building, EACH ONE A FORWARD HQ.
With all types of blobs around it, I was conscript blobbed, guard blobbed, shock, MG, AT blobbed. Mostly at the same time.
Close Air support is like flying pest control to me.
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
That often turns into a motor battle and being able to reinforce larger squad sizes and not needing to retreat is very helpful.
Also Angermunde is narrow and dense and I've been on the recieving end of leapfrogging FHQs pushing down the side.
Rostov it's also useful, because the decisive area is the town and that is really far away from the spawn spots.
That said, everything else you get from the Commander is pretty meh:
2CP 45mm Pea shooter
4CP Armoured Vehicle Detection
6CP Boobytrap
7CP Incendiry Barrage
Only one of those is really any good and by the time you can launch Incendiry Barrages the list of things that can kill an FHQ is very long.
In the early game the Germans basically have:
Mortars (but because of the FHQ will usually come off worst in such an exchange)
MHTs
MHTs with Incen (which will, as noted mess up the support weapons and possible set fire to the building)
222s and FHTs
Or ignore it and go somewhere else, then come back when you have things that can kill it.
It is useful as part of a concerted strategy in the early to mid game, but it doesn't have anything that can scale into the late game.
Posts: 1162
At the same time bombard the building with a mortar.
Livestreams
23 | |||||
871 |
Ladders Top 10
-
#Steam AliasWL%Streak
- 1.829222.789+35
- 2.34957.860+14
- 3.587233.716+3
- 4.1095612.641+19
- 5.882398.689+4
- 6.280162.633+8
- 7.997646.607+1
- 8.379114.769+1
- 9.300113.726-1
- 10.717439.620+1
Replay highlight
- cblanco ★
- 보드카 중대
- VonManteuffel
- Heartless Jäger
Board Info
Brick Top
3 posts in the last week
23 posts in the last month
Welcome our newest member, sunwinctcom
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM