Maxim - Enough said

One thing you tend to ignore is that Maxim spamer lost this game. If German player went for second Sniper the game would have ended much quicker. Instead he went for fairly standard build and managed to win regardless despite being pushed back in the early game. When the tanks came he was prepared and delt with the threat quickly.
Not to forget this particular map encourages this kind of gameplay. If German started south he would achieved even better results with single bunker on cut off point.

Excellent point that he lost it!!! But not for the reason you think.


He had absolute domination the whole game. He lost because he was a bad player

But despite being bad he had domination the whole game.


It's a micro-light, easy-to-use, powerful strat that creates BORING games. I can see no reason no to make changes to make this less viable.





I don't understand why so many people write "just adapt". Would the players saying that say "just adapt to G43 spam" last patch? Would they accept that as an argument? No. And theyd be right.


That was OP. I was against that staying. I'm against this staying too.




(I'm also against a T1 troop carrier with 270 degrees of weapons when garrisoned that can kite like a bitch and bring the flames to all your retreating units and that negates the idea of flanking in a game whose main premise is "use strategy to outmaneuver instead of just running around shotting". But sigh... I'll l2p and adapt to that too)

@Bulgakov

That "bad player" is 37th place in 1v1 sov with over 70% of wins.

It's a micro-light, easy-to-use, powerful strat that creates BORING games. I can see no reason no to make changes to make this less viable.

Thank you for extremely accurately describing current german meta of 4 grens+MG or pure grenspam.

Excellent point that he lost it!!! But not for the reason you think.


He had absolute domination the whole game. He lost because he was a bad player

But despite being bad he had domination the whole game.


It's a micro-light, easy-to-use, powerful strat that creates BORING games. I can see no reason no to make changes to make this less viable.





I don't understand why so many people write "just adapt". Would the players saying that say "just adapt to G43 spam" last patch? Would they accept that as an argument? No. And theyd be right.


That was OP. I was against that staying. I'm against this staying too.




(I'm also against a T1 troop carrier with 270 degrees of weapons when garrisoned that can kite like a bitch and bring the flames to all your retreating units and that negates the idea of flanking in a game whose main premise is "use strategy to outmaneuver instead of just running around shotting". But sigh... I'll l2p and adapt to that too)

This player is in top 100 as a Soviet.

Also this supposed to be OP strat is heavily countered by double Sniper build and at this point this discussion should end.

@Bulgakov

That "bad player" is 37th place in 1v1 sov with over 70% of wins.


Thank you for extremely accurately describing current german meta of 4 grens+MG or pure grenspam.

You know if something is actually over powered arguing based on rank is meaningless, right? An overpowered strategy will inflate their rank.

Anyways, I don't really think Maxim Spam is good enough to necessitate changes. Luvnest seemed like he was taken aback by the extreme nature of the enemy's strategy. He responded appropriately to maxims (building a Sniper early), but did not follow through with an additional sniper after he saw the depths of the opponent's commitment to Maxim spam.

There's no way that the opponent could have realistically held the cutoff outside of his base for so long against two snipers. Even one sniper was a huge threat. Having his cutoff would have bolstered his resources and he could have gotten new counters in Tier 2.

I think that the Mortar Halftrack was a bit of a mistake too. As people have said mortars seem to struggle against this sort of raw Maxim play. I think that Luvnest would have been better served with a 222 Scout Car and a Halftrack which costs 45 fuel (roughly the same).

Pair the 222 Scout Car up with a pioneer squad with mine sweepers and send them off to the fringes of the map to capture less traveled territories. For Langskaya this basically means the west. The 222 inflicts devastating damage to Maxims at close range. There's a natural worry with mines but that's why the capping unit that travels with the 222 SC is the trusty pioneer with sweepers. The mine detection radius is fairly large so you can at least be sure that your path to the maxim is safe. I mean, you can see it in this game! He uses the Scout car to help push maxims out of the west and then sweeps in to support his own forces. The mortar halftrack delayed this action and probably hurt him.

The 251 Halftrack is there to secure dropped maxims. Maxims are good as we can see! With two snipers and a 222 you can chase and kill Maxims early. Dropped maxims are usually a pain to recrew but the Halftrack helps with this. Once you have a Maxim it can be used to further solidify the line from which your Snipers operate. As others have suggested you can also use this for a point blank dropoff flank but this action is probably needlessly risky as it leaves your Snipers vulnerable and you could hit a mine. Options are always nice though.

The enemy has access to their ZiS guns to help deal with T2 armor but Snipers are pretty good at disrupting these too. Just keep them a little back and let your Grens screen.

When you're facing flat out maxim spam like this you need to realize that the enemy's throwing away a long term advantage for a short one. Maxims are utterly useless against armor unlike other basic units. They have no AT grenade. They have nothing. In the later stages of the game they will suffer as the battlefield changes. The biggest question is if the early game advantage is enough to counteract this. If Maxim spam is re-surging then people will learn the tell-tale signs and being using appropriate counters like Snipers.

If you look upon the replay the op posted i would say nearly all your counters are not effective. Let start with the mortar. Its completely rng dependant and if you say your strat should not resolve around luck. The sniper will take a full 30 seconds to bring a maxim to 1 man force a retreat. that is a long time not to mention you are using a very frail unit and one fuck up and you can say goodbye to your 360 mp investment.

The HT strat works provided he doesn't have AT or guards.

But the biggest issue with the maxim is how cheap it is to reinforce. even if you hit with riflenade or a sniper or mortar you virtually cause no mp damage what so ever. this issue can be easily resolved if we double mp cost for reinforcement making the soviet player pay dearly if they use maxim spam.

Mortars are still reliable at killing off weapons teams, you must never use them to think RNG will fuck you over that bad.....

The sniper just like in the video will rack up a huge number of kills, if you fuck up and loose it that is your fault just like in the original, there will not be any soviet snipers to counter snipe so I see no reason your sniper will be in huge danger. It is a well worth it investment, I guess you just must never use them.

If there are guards (like one unit because there are a bunch of maxims and soon to be Zis to stop tanks) then use the sniper to force them to retreat, and use the 222 / half track where the guards are not, they cannot be everywhere.

If maxim spam is a problem for you go strait to the counters and stop just running strait at them. Because rifle grenades are a thing dealing with maxim spam is WAY easier than dealing with the old instant pinning mg42 spam.

Mortars are still reliable at killing off weapons teams, you must never use them to think RNG will fuck you over that bad.....

The sniper just like in the video will rack up a huge number of kills, if you fuck up and loose it that is your fault just like in the original, there will not be any soviet snipers to counter snipe so I see no reason your sniper will be in huge danger. It is a well worth it investment, I guess you just must never use them.

If there are guards (like one unit because there are a bunch of maxims and soon to be Zis to stop tanks) then use the sniper to force them to retreat, and use the 222 / half track where the guards are not, they cannot be everywhere.

If maxim spam is a problem for you go strait to the counters and stop just running strait at them. Because rifle grenades are a thing dealing with maxim spam is WAY easier than dealing with the old instant pinning mg42 spam.

Jusr proves ur a soviet biased player. Maxims instantly ground any german infantry

Jusr proves ur a soviet biased player. Maxims instantly ground any german infantry

Yes, maxims suppress infantry very quickly, is there a problem with this?

If you look upon the replay the op posted i would say nearly all your counters are not effective. Let start with the mortar. Its completely rng dependant and if you say your strat should not resolve around luck. The sniper will take a full 30 seconds to bring a maxim to 1 man force a retreat. that is a long time not to mention you are using a very frail unit and one fuck up and you can say goodbye to your 360 mp investment.

The HT strat works provided he doesn't have AT or guards.

But the biggest issue with the maxim is how cheap it is to reinforce. even if you hit with riflenade or a sniper or mortar you virtually cause no mp damage what so ever. this issue can be easily resolved if we double mp cost for reinforcement making the soviet player pay dearly if they use maxim spam.

Now I am very sure that maxims are more expensive to reinforce than mg42s. 22 mp per mg42 member for mg and 15 manpower per maxim member. 22 x 3 = 66 mp Maxim = 15 x 5 = 75 mp.

Jusr proves ur a soviet biased player. Maxims instantly ground any german infantry

Lmao you couldn't even come up with a good argument so just resorted to 'lol fanboi'.

Jusr proves ur a soviet biased player. Maxims instantly ground any german infantry

I laugh at you sir, when someone told me MG42 HMG is OP I laughed even harder.

Now I am very sure that maxims are more expensive to reinforce than mg42s. 22 mp per mg42 member for mg and 15 manpower per maxim member. 22 x 3 = 66 mp Maxim = 15 x 5 = 75 mp.

That's only if you're always losing all the non-vital members, however. The numbers gives far more leeway in taking losses unless the guy with the cart keeps getting shot.

My main problem with the Maxim(in the open/yellow cover) is its ability to stroll up to deployed 42s, get suppressed, supress the 42 while suppressed if it's not in green cover and then it becomes a slap fight between the two. It's even worse when the gunner decides its a good time to reload. I think it was enough to cause a maxim to become unsupressed and win the engagement, but that was a while ago.

Also I envy the fact the Maxim are decent in buildings whereas putting the MG42 in there is usually pointless since it takes forever to swap windows and fire.

Yes, maxims suppress infantry very quickly, is there a problem with this?

Yeah there is. Because MG42 doesnt do fk all. Can easily get ooraahd then molotoved.

Yeah there is. Because MG42 doesnt do fk all. Can easily get ooraahd then molotoved.

This sounds like the classic case of "I do not support my mg42s, I set up and forget" because if you actually adapted to the last few patches you'd find that all MG's require support (even if it is from another mg). A gren squad near buy would pick off members as they approach. The second you see an oorah towards your mg42 start moving it (assuming they cons didnt get suppressed). If you got flanked and they oorahed towards your mg42 well props to the soviet player for finding a route around the arc.

You need to stop going on forums, whining about issues you never ask help in resolving, and starting flame wars to back up your complaints. You should spend more time on streams or in the strategy section

That's only if you're always losing all the non-vital members, however. The numbers gives far more leeway in taking losses unless the guy with the cart keeps getting shot.

My main problem with the Maxim(in the open/yellow cover) is its ability to stroll up to deployed 42s, get suppressed, supress the 42 while suppressed if it's not in green cover and then it becomes a slap fight between the two. It's even worse when the gunner decides its a good time to reload. I think it was enough to cause a maxim to become unsupressed and win the engagement, but that was a while ago.

Also I envy the fact the Maxim are decent in buildings whereas putting the MG42 in there is usually pointless since it takes forever to swap windows and fire.

mg42s are still good in buildings but they need to be supported and not in structures that are at the center of fire fights because they will have to turn the gun all the time.

I have never had a problem of a maxim running up to my mg42s and winning, they get suppressed and have a large accuracy modifier that allows the mg42 to pin them with no problem.

mg42s are still good in buildings but they need to be supported and not in structures that are at the center of fire fights because they will have to turn the gun all the time.

I have never had a problem of a maxim running up to my mg42s and winning, they get suppressed and have a large accuracy modifier that allows the mg42 to pin them with no problem.

You may not have no problems but i suppose your a lucky considering you list mortars as a maxim counter. the numbers are not in the mg42's favor. to back this up look at 6:20 where the first burst doesnt suppress the maxim.

This sounds like the classic case of "I do not support my mg42s, I set up and forget" because if you actually adapted to the last few patches you'd find that all MG's require support (even if it is from another mg). A gren squad near buy would pick off members as they approach. The second you see an oorah towards your mg42 start moving it (assuming they cons didnt get suppressed). If you got flanked and they oorahed towards your mg42 well props to the soviet player for finding a route around the arc.

You need to stop going on forums, whining about issues you never ask help in resolving, and starting flame wars to back up your complaints. You should spend more time on streams or in the strategy section

it doesn't suppress enough and is just a massive liability. i hardly use mg42 these days and still win most of the games.

Despite the lack of: grammar, spelling, punctuation, consideration of others arguments, blatant hypocrisy, general courtesy and acceptance that the large majority of players have no issue with this; one must admire they do stick to their guns…

Vetlolcake wrote:

Its a joke also how soviets can float so many munitions in games.

Any you wonder why soviets always have so many free floating munitions and fuel.

Its because their unit uprades, doctrine supports are too cheap and too effective for price

LOL@ these idiots saying Maxim being OP is a L2P issue.

Just like how germans were supposedly OP and then you whined them into obvlivion.

Jusr proves ur a soviet biased player. Maxims instantly ground any german infantry

Yeah there is. Because MG42 doesnt do fk all. Can easily get ooraahd then molotoved.

Jaigen wrote:

this map allows maxim spam faggotery.

i suggest we double the reinforcement cost of the maxim to 30. this stops spamming and forces the soviets to build conscripts for merging.

fuck off until you get a replay where you rape maxim spam with tier 1-2 tools. you can blabber all you want about adept and l2p but you dont give any tactics or strats wtf so ever.

teching cost got increased so you have sit on a shitload of mp while you wait go to tier2 and expect the soviets just sit on their asses and not take the map.

You must give arguments why maxim spam is not a problem show

…i would say nearly all your counters are not effective. Let start with the mortar. Its completely rng dependant and if you say your strat should not resolve around luck. The sniper will take a full 30 seconds to bring a maxim to 1 man force a retreat. that is a long time not to mention you are using a very frail unit and one fuck up and you can say goodbye to your 360 mp investment.

The HT strat works provided he doesn't have AT or guards.

…the biggest issue with the maxim is how cheap it is to reinforce. even if you hit with riflenade or a sniper or mortar you virtually cause no mp damage what so ever.

lets stop this now?

it doesn't suppress enough and is just a massive liability. i hardly use mg42 these days and still win most of the games.

So its Grenspam then? Because Mortars are luck dependant, MG's are not reliable and german snipers suck? Gren spam?

Man, today one maxpin squad survive (no one dies) a mortar attack (with visual contact) and i with bulletin of accuracy, wtf!?!?!? Sometimes the soviet armor bugged....

Man, today one maxpin squad survive (no one dies) a mortar attack (with visual contact) and i with bulletin of accuracy, wtf!?!?!? Sometimes the soviet armor bugged....

You know what they say about claims like this, rep or gtfo.