Have been patient enough...where is our balance patch.

The same adjustments you would make vs lmg42 as Soviet needs to be made vs Guards with DP-28; either get in close with flamethrower Pioneers, Assault Grenadiers or counter them even harder with Panzergrenadiers OR out-range them with snipers, mortars and rifle grenades.

The same adjustments you would make vs lmg42 as Soviet needs to be made vs Guards with DP-28; either get in close with flamethrower Pioneers, Assault Grenadiers or counter them even harder with Panzergrenadiers OR out-range them with snipers, mortars and rifle grenades.

DP also do less damage up close.

This is laughable, Pgrens are actually pretty solid, you just have to use them with patience. They aren't commandos and they aren't meant to be. Use them at range. Grens are fantastic, with and without LMGs. If your up against PPSHs' they have a hard time but you can counter this with lmgs. They will shred cons trying to close the gap. Also, the heaviest tank you will have to worry about against PPSHs' is the T34/85, which is only in one of the doctrines. German infantry is perfectly viable right now.

Pgrens solid? Hm.
I still don't understand, why Pgrens are "not supposed to" be a mid-close reliable unit. Why do they have ASSAULT rifles? (STGs?) Give them rifles or carbines then, ffs and it will be more understandable.
I mean what do germans really have in terms of infantry?

Grenadiers? "Fantastic"?! Yeah, they are at most suitable but "fantastic"?... No, "fantastic" are the shocks. They still die like flies and especially on retreat. A retreating 2 or 3 man squad being killed on retreat is not nice to see, no matter the faction.

Pzgrenadiers? If you take one-two steps out of cover you are down by 2 models. That happened to me while attacking a ZIS crew. A ZIS CREW! In that second is retreat or die. A unit with automatic rifles' purpose is to stay in green cover and defend? Where is the logic? Ok.... they can be upgraded with schrecks. The only true purpose of their current existence. Still, they only can use them defensively because, remember, one step out of cover and you're doomed, so you can chase nobody with that schreck. Don't tell me that for soviet being out of cover means the same penalty because I'll instantly tell ya that they have a 6 men squad.

Osttruppen? I'll let them out, their existence is embarrassing when speaking about infantry performance. They are more expensive than soviet irregulars while being torn apart by them (because, at german faction, nobody gives you a free lmg42 or a free Dp28. To whom will want to tell me that I have this facility at mobile Defense Doctrine: yeah, the chance for that Ost squad to actually have a lmg is similar to our chance to be hit by a meteorite).

Assault Grenadiers - the only reliable german infantry unit in the game. They have their weaknesses but that's normal, used properly they are ok. Oh, wait they are stuck in ONE DLC doctrine. Forget them....

So right there we've got 4 infantry unit types from which we have to chose, considering their "performances"

Now please count the number of infantry unit types at soviets, doctrinaire or default,and on top of that, please tell me, in how many soviet doctrines do you have the best soviet infantry and the best infantry in the game and in how many german doctrines do you have the best german infantry unit in the game.

DP also do less damage up close.

Hence the "get in close" part

Pgrens solid? Hm.
I still don't understand, why Pgrens are "not supposed to" be a mid-close reliable unit. Why do they have ASSAULT rifles? (STGs?) Give them rifles or carbines then, ffs and it will be more understandable.
I mean what do germans really have in terms of infantry?

Grenadiers? "Fantastic"?! Yeah, they are at most suitable but "fantastic"?... No, "fantastic" are the shocks. They still die like flies and especially on retreat. A retreating 2 or 3 man squad being killed on retreat is not nice to see, no matter the faction.

Pzgrenadiers? If you take one-two steps out of cover you are down by 2 models. That happened to me while attacking a ZIS crew. A ZIS CREW! In that second is retreat or die. A unit with automatic rifles' purpose is to stay in green cover and defend? Where is the logic? Ok.... they can be upgraded with schrecks. The only true purpose of their current existence. Still, they only can use them defensively because, remember, one step out of cover and you're doomed, so you can chase nobody with that schreck. Don't tell me that for soviet being out of cover means the same penalty because I'll instantly tell ya that they have a 6 men squad.

Osttruppen? I'll let them out, their existence is embarrassing when speaking about infantry performance. They are more expensive than soviet irregulars while being torn apart by them (because, at german faction, nobody gives you a free lmg42 or a free Dp28. To whom will want to tell me that I have this facility at mobile Defense Doctrine: yeah, the chance for that Ost squad to actually have a lmg is similar to our chance to be hit by a meteorite).

Assault Grenadiers - the only reliable german infantry unit in the game. They have their weaknesses but that's normal, used properly they are ok. Oh, wait they are stuck in ONE DLC doctrine. Forget them....

So right there we've got 4 infantry unit types from which we have to chose, considering their "performances"

Now please count the number of infantry unit types at soviets, doctrinaire or default,and on top of that, please tell me, in how many soviet doctrines do you have the best soviet infantry and the best infantry in the game and in how many german doctrines do you have the best german infantry unit in the game.

grens are truly multi-purpose unit from the get-go

pgrens still melt units mid/close and at least decent at long

ass gren, i dont know so i guess you are right

ostruppen... i had two ostruppen in cover, mid range from a sov sniper. shot at that sniper for yay 7 seconds. the sov sniper got 25% health damage. i remember reading ostruppen are supposed to perform slightly worse than grens. that is not the case at all. they are worthless

Guards also have an anti-tank weapon. Would you like them to be anti-tank AND anti-inf?

Oh I'd love them to be anti tank.

But that won't happen.

4 mosin guards have pretty much same DPS as 4 grens. A pair of DPs is better then one LMG, it would be cool if they could drop away PTRS after 12min of the game, thats how great PTRS are.

Currently guards are AV support with AI and that is fine.

Oh I'd love them to be anti tank.

But that won't happen.

4 mosin guards have pretty much same DPS as 4 grens. A pair of DPs is better then one LMG, it would be cool if they could drop away PTRS after 12min of the game, thats how great PTRS are.

Currently guards are AV support with AI and that is fine.

Whenever my gaurds drop a PTRS, i treat it as a good thing since you dont need PTRS for button and PTRS does zero damage anyways and them dropping a PTRS means 1 more mosin nagant.

Whenever my gaurds drop a PTRS, i treat it as a good thing since you dont need PTRS for button and PTRS does zero damage anyways and them dropping a PTRS means 1 more mosin nagant.

Agree that PTRS is to damn weak for an infantry unit who pretends to have anti-vehicle capabilities. It still shouldn't be as strong as the schreck but definettly better than it is now in order to have SOME effects on medium tanks. Or increase its chance to damage the engine, disable track, something. Now, that weapon is simple hilarious.

Agree that PTRS is to damn weak for an infantry unit who pretends to have anti-vehicle capabilities. It still shouldn't be as strong as the schreck but definettly better than it is now in order to have SOME effects on medium tanks. Or increase its chance to damage the engine, disable track, something. Now, that weapon is simple hilarious.

Never thought I'd agree with you but you have a good point in here!


Hence I have to agree that I don't get why a 240 MP 60 Ammo unit can fight a 360 MP 80 Ammo unit effectively :/

Never thought I'd agree with you but you have a good point in here!


Hence I have to agree that I don't get why a 240 MP 60 Ammo unit can fight a 360 MP 80 Ammo unit effectively :/

Are you referring to Guards? Guards are 330 manpower and the DP28 upgrade costs 75 munitions.

Yeah, but this doesn't change the fact that guards should win.

I wasn't debating that. I'm just here to avoid confusion.

Balance is pretty good atm but there are still a few things that need to be looked at:

1. Nerf the damage Soviet mines do to infantry. Right now they can easily wipe out a full health gren squad. They should only kill 2 squad member or kill 1 and do some health damage consiering their low price.

2. Nerf the ISU, Decrease range to 75, decrease damage to infantry, reduce the price so it will still be viable in 1v1. Something like 620 MP 220 Fuel should be fine.

3. Nerf the Elefant, Decrease Range to 75, give it a lock down ability (it takes 5 seconds to lock the elefant down and to 5 seconds to pack it up. The ability increases the range to 90 and increases the rotation speed by 20%, the elefant has no line of sight while this ability is active so the OH player has to scout properly and pack the elefant up as soon as his scout units are forced to retreat). Nerf its damage so the elefant will need at least 3 shots to kill soviet medium tanks. Reduce the price. 600 MP 220 Fuel maybe ?

4. Nerf Soviet Snipers. Snipers get a 25% accuracy penalty for every additional sniper within a specific range(20). This will make sniper blobbing less popular.

5.Buff the german Snipers health

6. Reduce the speed sectors are capped with by 20%

7. Give PGs 1.2 Armor

8. (Buff german T4, not sure how)

9. Increase Stug price to 260 MP 90 Fuel

10. Increase the health of the ZIS Atg by 25% so it won't get destroyed by two Stugs.

11. Nerf the AI damage of the Tiger.


Of course there are a lot more changes that could be made but these are the most important imo.

Is PTRS supposed to be an AT weapon? I thought it was supposed to counter light vehicles, which it does now quite effectively? I mean if it's fairly effective against medium tanks like the P4, Stug etc it would be utterly ludicrous for it to come so early in the game. Button allows it to synergize with the rest of your army but I'm seriously questioning some of this stuff here.

Light vehicles are usually away by the time the PTRS is actually aimed...

I have asked in the past for Guards to spawn with six rifles and have PTRS munitions upgrade and I will suggest it again. This way the Guards are more flexible like Panzergrens and the PTRS could be improved.

Osttruppen are great for remanning support weapons while keeping your panzergrens/grens on the field. That is what I want osttruppen for.

Guards should not be used for AI without the DPs. Otherwise, it's wasting your MP and not getting what you can out of an elite infantry unit.

Balance is pretty good atm but there are still a few things that need to be looked at:

1. Nerf the damage Soviet mines do to infantry. Right now they can easily wipe out a full health gren squad. They should only kill 2 squad member or kill 1 and do some health damage consiering their low price.

2. Nerf the ISU, Decrease range to 75, decrease damage to infantry, reduce the price so it will still be viable in 1v1. Something like 620 MP 220 Fuel should be fine.

3. Nerf the Elefant, Decrease Range to 75, give it a lock down ability (it takes 5 seconds to lock the elefant down and to 5 seconds to pack it up. The ability increases the range to 90 and increases the rotation speed by 20%, the elefant has no line of sight while this ability is active so the OH player has to scout properly and pack the elefant up as soon as his scout units are forced to retreat). Nerf its damage so the elefant will need at least 3 shots to kill soviet medium tanks. Reduce the price. 600 MP 220 Fuel maybe ?

4. Nerf Soviet Snipers. Snipers get a 25% accuracy penalty for every additional sniper within a specific range(20). This will make sniper blobbing less popular.

5.Buff the german Snipers health

6. Reduce the speed sectors are capped with by 20%

7. Give PGs 1.2 Armor

8. (Buff german T4, not sure how)

9. Increase Stug price to 260 MP 90 Fuel

10. Increase the health of the ZIS Atg by 25% so it won't get destroyed by two Stugs.

11. Nerf the AI damage of the Tiger.


Of course there are a lot more changes that could be made but these are the most important imo.

Like to something along this lines.

4- Not accuracy but aiming time.

6- I would rather change it to support weapons capping a bit more slower.

9- Would rather see being it more AT, i can´t still understand this change with more AI.

11- Along with a increase on DMG and reload time on the IS2 mantaining DPS. I prefered how it behave before.

12- Artillery in general.

8 - There is no problem with German T4. The problem is that call-in tanks do not require tech.

German T4 is, and has always been, an excellent choice against soviet T4. It is, and has always been, a risky but not completely un-doable choice against soviet T3 play.

The broken no-tech call-in system needs to be fixed, then German T4 will automatically become more appealing without requiring any stat changes.

Balance is pretty good atm but there are still a few things that need to be looked at:

1. Nerf the damage Soviet mines do to infantry. Right now they can easily wipe out a full health gren squad. They should only kill 2 squad member or kill 1 and do some health damage consiering their low price.

2. Nerf the ISU, Decrease range to 75, decrease damage to infantry, reduce the price so it will still be viable in 1v1. Something like 620 MP 220 Fuel should be fine.

3. Nerf the Elefant, Decrease Range to 75, give it a lock down ability (it takes 5 seconds to lock the elefant down and to 5 seconds to pack it up. The ability increases the range to 90 and increases the rotation speed by 20%, the elefant has no line of sight while this ability is active so the OH player has to scout properly and pack the elefant up as soon as his scout units are forced to retreat). Nerf its damage so the elefant will need at least 3 shots to kill soviet medium tanks. Reduce the price. 600 MP 220 Fuel maybe ?

4. Nerf Soviet Snipers. Snipers get a 25% accuracy penalty for every additional sniper within a specific range(20). This will make sniper blobbing less popular.

5.Buff the german Snipers health

6. Reduce the speed sectors are capped with by 20%

7. Give PGs 1.2 Armor

8. (Buff german T4, not sure how)

9. Increase Stug price to 260 MP 90 Fuel

10. Increase the health of the ZIS Atg by 25% so it won't get destroyed by two Stugs.

11. Nerf the AI damage of the Tiger.


Of course there are a lot more changes that could be made but these are the most important imo.

Let's not forget the is2 still squadwipes here. I think the tiger squadwipes at the same rate as is2 so im not complaining about it.