You will always want T3
15 May 2014, 16:41 PM
#41
Posts: 1571
A perfect German commander for the post patch would probably be one that includes both osttruppen call-ins and the Tiger tank.
15 May 2014, 17:23 PM
#42
Posts: 1163
I'm going to try out:
T1 (SC agreession)
4 Cons
fuel cache
T3 > fast T70
Back teck to T2 for ZiS.
Either get T34 after the T70 or after the ZiS depending on enemy.
This is like doing a T2-T3, but it grants early scout car harassment and also slightly earlier T3. But then tricky part is getting a ZiS out in time.
T1 (SC agreession)
4 Cons
fuel cache
T3 > fast T70
Back teck to T2 for ZiS.
Either get T34 after the T70 or after the ZiS depending on enemy.
This is like doing a T2-T3, but it grants early scout car harassment and also slightly earlier T3. But then tricky part is getting a ZiS out in time.
15 May 2014, 17:28 PM
#43
Posts: 1571
I don't use the KV-1 alone. I use them to create synergy with T-34 in the attack. If I put the KV on the front line I use Zis gun to cover it in the defense.
The thing with KV-1 is the fact that different tactics have to be used with them. One or two KV-1s to hold the front/fix the enemy and T-34s as the flanking force. Like the Tiger, they are too slow to flank or perform hit & run. They have the advantage of making German T3 AT ineffective.
The thing with KV-1 is the fact that different tactics have to be used with them. One or two KV-1s to hold the front/fix the enemy and T-34s as the flanking force. Like the Tiger, they are too slow to flank or perform hit & run. They have the advantage of making German T3 AT ineffective.
With its recent changes it is also alot more vulnerable to Fausts. I used to enjoy the fact that it could bonunce fausts and had enough HPs to make it worth its cost.
But I can routinely beat them with P4s just keep the P4 at range where the Pen drop off for the T34/76 gun cant compete. And unlike the T34 post patch it CANNOT close the distance or easily escape.
Want to see comedy watch a blob of KV1s vs a single Pak 43. Point the gun away wait for the pack to get in mid range then point at them and watch them die one by one trying in vain to escape.
I absolutely hate this tank this patch.
15 May 2014, 18:09 PM
#44
Posts: 1163
I dunno, how do stugs fare against them in a slug fest?
15 May 2014, 18:20 PM
#45
Posts: 1130
Why do some players commit suicide not going T3? They just wait for the call-ins and meanwhile you come back to win it... I think all the units in the soviet T3 are good. And the same can be said about german T3, havent used the ostwind that much though. But I think T3 is very strong with both factions, a must.
As example the T-85 comes at 9cps. I much rather have the T-34 at 3 or 4 cps.
Taking out a at-wall isnt that hard with either the P4 or the T-34. GG.
why even bother with tier 3 their are plenty of tanks that can take the role of the t-34. you no call in comparison to the su85. going to tier 3 makes you extremely vulnerable to the tiger or elephant
horrida flamma bella
15 May 2014, 18:23 PM
#46
Posts: 1571
T3 and medium armor, when used against tigers or elefants, must be used in swarms that outnumber opposing armor at least 2:1.
I personally find that the old double IS-2 strats do not work anymore. The IS-2s are too expensive and don't have the AI they used to have. Both the Elefant and the Tiger have heavily buffed pens.
Stugs and P4s can't pen KV-1s reliably. The stug can stun it like everything else, though.
I personally find that the old double IS-2 strats do not work anymore. The IS-2s are too expensive and don't have the AI they used to have. Both the Elefant and the Tiger have heavily buffed pens.
Stugs and P4s can't pen KV-1s reliably. The stug can stun it like everything else, though.
15 May 2014, 18:26 PM
#47
Posts: 1637
I don't use the KV-1 alone. I use them to create synergy with T-34 in the attack. If I put the KV on the front line I use Zis gun to cover it in the defense.
The thing with KV-1 is the fact that different tactics have to be used with them. One or two KV-1s to hold the front/fix the enemy and T-34s as the flanking force. Like the Tiger, they are too slow to flank or perform hit & run. They have the advantage of making German T3 AT ineffective.
Cool glad it works for you
When I used to use them it was to help out T4. I am just fine with using regular T34s. If microd well they dont have issues with P4s so much. The only advantage I could see with the KV1 is surviving a little bit better to Pak hits. But not by much. Not more than say a T34/85 this patch.And now this patch I think its not as good as a meat shield as it once was and the gun on it is more suited for a fast tank for reasons already addressed. I just cant justify its cost anymore. I can do better with other alternatives basically.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
15 May 2014, 18:36 PM
#48
Posts: 28
T3 and medium armor, when used against tigers or elefants, must be used in swarms that outnumber opposing armor at least 2:1.
This is exactly what I mean by landslide tier. T34 isnt that inexpensive, two t34s are approaching the cost of a tiger, but they won't kill a tiger, not even close.
All of this "swarm" talk is silly, in an even match, how are you going to swarm a 100 fuel unit? Only if you are *already* winning with too much momentum for the enemy to reach equal footing again.
Being the mitylite that I am, doing what a mitylite does.
15 May 2014, 18:59 PM
#49
Posts: 1571
Medium armor swarm: 4-5 units vs. Heavy armor: 2 X
The advantage of medium armor is the fact that they can engage many targets at the same time and when put together, have dramatically higher DPS against infantry and support weapons than heavy tanks. A heavy tank attack will be crippled if one heavy hits a mine or gets engine damaged.
The advantage of medium armor is the fact that they can engage many targets at the same time and when put together, have dramatically higher DPS against infantry and support weapons than heavy tanks. A heavy tank attack will be crippled if one heavy hits a mine or gets engine damaged.
15 May 2014, 19:36 PM
#50
Posts: 28
in what world below 3v3 do you have 4-5 T34s, when you're not just humiliating an already broken opponent.
Being the mitylite that I am, doing what a mitylite does.
15 May 2014, 19:49 PM
#51
Posts: 1571
You do realize that 1 tiger/elefant costs as much as 2 x T-34s?
15 May 2014, 20:06 PM
#52
Posts: 28
You do realize that 1 tiger/elefant costs as much as 2 x T-34s?
I don't think people are very happy about the elephant.
Point is, T34 needs to be swarmed to be effective? I think that defines it as ineffective by default. I don't ever see that happening in even matches. in order for it to happen you would need to never lose any, and if THAT is happening, you are not in an even match.
Tier 3 is a landslide tier for sovs and leaves you handicapped for late game, in an even match, in my experience.
Being the mitylite that I am, doing what a mitylite does.
15 May 2014, 22:09 PM
#53
Posts: 1571
4 x T-34/sherman will trump 2 x tigers in taking out infantry and support weapons. T-34 can also cap. T-34s come in early on in the game. Tigers come in late game and SU-85s are only useful vs. tanks.
It's not all about AT. In any event, I don't think it's good to use only AFVs vs. AFVs unless you are using Guards motor and have marked target.
It's not all about AT. In any event, I don't think it's good to use only AFVs vs. AFVs unless you are using Guards motor and have marked target.
16 May 2014, 00:26 AM
#54
Posts: 307
The KV-1 is a very good call-in.
Overall, I'm not a fan of the double T-34/85 call in (even though mark target helps) The wait is much too long. The single T-34/85 from advanced warfare is better. But both call-ins are expensive and come late. Ditto for the Sherman, except I really don't like its HP.
I still think that early T-34/76s + quick call-ins for precipitous attacks are the key. The T-34/76 is the baseline armor. Then buff the tank force with the KV-1, Sherman, or T-34/85.
Is-2 is too expensive for its ability (its in the same price class as the tiger but is much worse) and the KV-8 is situational.
For soviets, I don't think T4 and IS-2 is worth it in many cases.
For Germans, T4 is not worth it but the Tiger tank is.
I can only partially agree with you. KV-1 is a really great call in tank. IMO it performs the best in conjunction with SU-85.
Usually I build my fleet at 4 tanks total depending on what the opponent is throwing on the field.
If I see lots of infantry I would go for double KV-1 and double SU-85, if there are lots of vehicles I will build 3 SU-85 and 1 KV-1.
Same with supporting units. Infantry - double shock troops. Tanks - double ZiS.
My point is that if you combine survivability of KV-1 and AT killing power of SU-85, you should have a solid combined force army.
Throw in B-4 for more damage, and you will be more than fine.
I've been doing pretty good with this commander in 2vs2 and up.
Vae Victis!
16 May 2014, 04:37 AM
#55
Posts: 1571
Depends on playstyle. I have never liked the SU-85 because it doesn't suit my desire to perform flank attacks. SUs + medium tanks also pose control issues I find as they can easily get separated and become unable to concentrate their fire. One has no turret and the other does. One gets locked down to a snail's pace when 'in focus forward' mode while the mediums can rapidly disengage.
Also, SUs do not contribute much in the destruction of infantry and support weapons. SUs are especially vulnerable to engine damage and enemy flanking.
I consider the SU to be fundamentally a defensive weapon. For the same amount of MP I can get a Zis gun. While it's not as capable as the SU, i divert the fuel to more Tanks and use Zis instead of SU to support.
Also, SUs do not contribute much in the destruction of infantry and support weapons. SUs are especially vulnerable to engine damage and enemy flanking.
I consider the SU to be fundamentally a defensive weapon. For the same amount of MP I can get a Zis gun. While it's not as capable as the SU, i divert the fuel to more Tanks and use Zis instead of SU to support.
16 May 2014, 09:39 AM
#56
10 
Posts: 159
Is teching to tanks simply uninteresting because the tanks are more vulnerable, and because teching to them practically costs the same as a 3x stronger callin tank, like the tiger? (At least the first T34, Panzer 4, or any Tier4 tank, costs the same, considering investment)
Moreover, a callin may be chosen, but only if the opponent does not seem to have decent AT to counter it. Tier3 or 4 is a serious investment, that can be countered more approriately with at guns.
I might get 2 T-34s before a Tiger runs in, against an opponent of my skill. But I'd need to backtech to Zis if I want to deal with it without losing at least 1 or 2 of them...Simply makes it easier to go for Shermans, 85s or whatever..They allow my army to be much more adaptable.
@coh2player
I like going T1 start, with penals and scout car. Your statement means I'm forced to go for tier 2 as well, and a commander that has call ins. I consider that decreasing my fun of trying other commanders
. I'd just like to play with decent tech too.
Moreover, a callin may be chosen, but only if the opponent does not seem to have decent AT to counter it. Tier3 or 4 is a serious investment, that can be countered more approriately with at guns.
I might get 2 T-34s before a Tiger runs in, against an opponent of my skill. But I'd need to backtech to Zis if I want to deal with it without losing at least 1 or 2 of them...Simply makes it easier to go for Shermans, 85s or whatever..They allow my army to be much more adaptable.
@coh2player
I like going T1 start, with penals and scout car. Your statement means I'm forced to go for tier 2 as well, and a commander that has call ins. I consider that decreasing my fun of trying other commanders
. I'd just like to play with decent tech too.
16 May 2014, 10:07 AM
#57
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I can only partially agree with you. KV-1 is a really great call in tank. IMO it performs the best in conjunction with SU-85.
Usually I build my fleet at 4 tanks total depending on what the opponent is throwing on the field.
If I see lots of infantry I would go for double KV-1 and double SU-85, if there are lots of vehicles I will build 3 SU-85 and 1 KV-1.
Same with supporting units. Infantry - double shock troops. Tanks - double ZiS.
My point is that if you combine survivability of KV-1 and AT killing power of SU-85, you should have a solid combined force army.
Throw in B-4 for more damage, and you will be more than fine.
I've been doing pretty good with this commander in 2vs2 and up.
Really great for what?
KV-1 have gun that needs flanking to be effective, got much less health then before and every med unit got increased armor as well as penetration, including AT guns, which means even more indirect nerfs to KV-1.
Current P4 can reliably take down KV-1 due to buffs it got.
KV-1 is T34 without the speed of T34, cost of T34 and survivability of T34(1 more shot from all sources vs inability to quickly bail out of AT range).
As much as I want to love KV-1, I can't, because this tank simply do not deliver.
It can't pack a hit, it can't take a hit, it can't flank, it can't soak any damage anymore.
Its much worse this patch then it was last patch, even with SU-85 support.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
16 May 2014, 10:21 AM
#58
10 Posts: 159
I'd like to add to my previous argument. That with agressive play, you have the CPs for a Callin at the 15 minute mark.
16 May 2014, 10:24 AM
#59
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I'd like to add to my previous argument. That with agressive play, you have the CPs for a Callin at the 15 minute mark.
And at 16th you can have a pair of T34/85 that actually can fight armor and are better against infantry.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
16 May 2014, 13:02 PM
#60
10 Posts: 159
And at 16th you can have a pair of T34/85 that actually can fight armor and are better against infantry.
you're most kind to add this. I will recommend you to the oberführer in kommando.
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