This patch killed Katyusha and Werfer

I don't know why they nerf them so much, what I watched from stream, replays, and experience of my own games, these two units are just a 85 fuel of New Year Firework launcher, absolutely safe and harmless.


The change of inverse variation of range and accuracy is reality, but for gameplay, it is bullshit. I cannot count how many times I try to silent a mortar but got squadwiped just because my troops are closed to the mortar.

For artillery piece like lefH, ML20, they already doesn't worth 600 MP before the nerf because it is so easy to call an off map arty or airstrike blowing it to dust, why increase their cool down making them further worthless?

Katyusha and Werfer are super fragile units and makes no sense having them close to their target, just for making them actually killing something, and the cool down is waaaaaaaaay too long.


Buffing ATGs and nerfing late game indirect fire in the same patch is really a bad idea.

I think they should remove that inverse variation of range and accuracy crap, or keeping it but decrease the scatter.
Howie should have manpower cost decrease, having some fuel cost, and HP increase, making them still possible to get destroyed with double off map strike.

The Katusha had always blew loads of nothing and was useless because the Su-85 is the only unit in t4 allowed to not suck. The panzer wafer actually did it's job before, but since the nerf it blows as much as the Katusha. I would love your changes, but until the elephant and Isu get nerfed I don't see why you would want to use artillery commanders or Rocket arty since Isu/Elephants already have super range to target anyway.

For me it sems that Katiusha still manages to kill something. Pzwerfer not. They "balanced" so well the game that some units completely disappeared because are not cost effective at all anymore or simply do nothing on the battlefield. Among them, the Panzerwerfer. Katiushas I still saw in my after patch games. Panzerwerfers not one single time.

For me it sems that Katiusha still manages to kill something. Pzwerfer not. They "balanced" so well the game that some units completely disappeared because are not cost effective at all anymore or simply do nothing on the battlefield. Among them, the Panzerwerfer. Katiushas I still saw in my after patch games. Panzerwerfers not one single time.

IMO they are both equally bad, both depend on pure luck, both are way too expensive for effectiveness and are wastes of fuel. In my personal experience Katushas need 6 barrages for 4 kills unless you get lucky targeting some blob..

For me it sems that Katiusha still manages to kill something. Pzwerfer not. They "balanced" so well the game that some units completely disappeared because are not cost effective at all anymore or simply do nothing on the battlefield. Among them, the Panzerwerfer. Katiushas I still saw in my after patch games. Panzerwerfers not one single time.

I disagree. Panzwerfer at least, targets a smaller area than kat, resulting in higher possibillity to kill. Most times when targeting an mg or something, kat never gets a single hit.

Relic wants you to charge in with your high cost vehicles and play with your balls hanging out.

Try it, if you close to within a screen or less of your target and fire with good LOS, they are more devastating than ever.

Sure, I'll just drive that armorless vehicle up to that pak wall there guys, k...

Same thing with mortars of course. Which is why you want them to close in on your mortar and try to spring a trap, the mortar will probably kill them before the trap closes...

This thread is quite impressive. Speaking from a 2v2 perspective, The Kat was and is good. The Werfer was game-breakingly OP and now is good.

Tell me this, If an opponent has a panzerwerfer and fires it with a shift command to reposition it back to his base after each barrage ... how do you kill it?

The panzerwerfer has no smoke warning, obliterates infantry and light vehicles and has very little warning in the form of sound. You also have to guess where it will land and have about 2 seconds to react. It can reposition after firing so there is no chance of counter-barraging one.

The Kat is still good, but less useful than the panzerwerfer until vet 1 for focus barrage, which owns.

In 1v1 they are more specialized but still useful given the right map and type of game (just like all units).

Whenever people use werfers/katushya against me by driving it up really close behind LOS blockers all my stuff dies. They do suck maybe too hard at max range and could be more viable in 1v1 though.

Give them a modest buff in recharge time. But while I agree they're not very good anymore, I'm scared they might go too far the opposite direction by buffing them again.

they are good, but need min 2 of them and only use it against team weapons first and blobs. It isnot the same like last patch you could even shoot one running conscript with it because of 25 sec cooldown.

I don't think they are bad, the only thing I would like to see changed is the katyuska over-shoot problem. It's one thing to have a big scatter at long range, but it's another thing to miss the circle completely with all 16 rockets.

I agree with Porygon. Artillery in this patch is underwhelming to say the least.

Especially against ISU/Ele if you wanna do some damage to the surrounding at-guns n mgs. From a distance you won't hit shit and closing in is not a very good idea.

The other problem is the cooldown. It is just too long on both, Katusha and Pwerfer.

I found it good that they reduced the amount of shells fired per barrage on the on map arty, but now they should reduce the price or the cooldown.

The panzerwerfer has no smoke warning, obliterates infantry and light vehicles and has very little warning in the form of sound.

Pls..
Don't forget to put your sound on man.
It's damn obvious, both of them.
Also you should know where the enemy wants to hit you. Of cours there is no flare that is saying 'BARAGE COMING IN 5 SECONDS GET THE FEK OUT'

Kattie is so useless man, I only make them because I absolutely love arty, but the rockets seem very drunk and sometimes don't hit the designated area.
Werfer is still good! Try using it from a bit closer to your enemy.
But as Aero says, missing the circle and overshooting shouldn't happen..

Haven't had much experience with Katyusha, but Panzerwerfer seems to be doing very little damage indeed.

Imagine if it did major damage, every 90 sec.
It's fine how it is imo. Just shoot in ze damn circle!

At least katiusha have shorter reload then werfer now, not making it seem that bad.

Katiushas are awesome in pair. Single one? Have fun with that.

Both Rocket Artillery units could use an improvement.

The Panzerwerfer is probably the worst off right now. It's a matter of opportunity cost really. Tier 4 for Germans is very expensive to advance to and additionally the units out of it are bad this patch. Bumbar remains terrible and the Panther, while still good, is a little too expensive. The Panzerwerfer is still okay but is easily countered by an M5 Halftrack. You can kill Maxims and AT guns fairly well with a (dangerous) close range barrage using the Panzerwerfer but with the 90 second cooldown it is very easy to get those guns back up and running quickly. The fact that you have pushed to Tier 4 hurts your ability to fight the enemy head on so they can now reinforce and pressure your Panzerwerfer before it can inflict significant damage. The attrition this unit generates is poor. It is quite rough!

The Katyusha is better off because Tier 4 for Soviets is still strong. With the right timing an SU-76 can be a handy unit to have and the SU-85 is exceptional at what it does. It's nerf was also smaller but I swear that the newest AoE profile for the Katyusha has made it much much worse. The Katyusha also performs okay with close range barrages but it is less maneuverable so there is far greater danger to moving in close. It is better off because it fires more often.

German artillery is wretched this patch. Soviet artillery is also wretched but this is masked by the completely overpowered ISU-152 which serves the same purpose at similar ranges.

The current meta is also very punishing for these two vehicles. Team game meta is basically a showdown between the two super ranged units: ISU-152 and Elefant. Neither rocket artillery unit helps unseat these and both of them die instantly to a single shot from either super unit. This makes it so you have to use your rocket artillery from behind line of sight blocking terrain which makes close range barrages impossible or too risky.

Artillery is intrinsically difficult to balance as it inflicts causalities without really expending resources from the bombardier. Right now though I think they're just too difficult to make cost efficient.

This thread is quite impressive. Speaking from a 2v2 perspective, The Kat was and is good. The Werfer was game-breakingly OP and now is good.

I second this. With vet on the PW, the cooldown was extremely low. And paired up you could wipe most of the map clean of infantry, mgs, zis, trees, grass, ducks and the occasional low HP tank.

Nah those Panzerwerfers and Kattys are more psychological weapons - your opponent hears launch sound and thinks OMG where i need move my units to run from rockets

Imagine if it did major damage, every 90 sec.
It's fine how it is imo. Just shoot in ze damn circle!

I would be statisfied if it did any damage at all...