Stuka Dive Bomb

This ability is totally fine.
It is expensive, and it takes a lot to gather enough muni. You basically need to sacrifice weapon upgrades on your infantry, mines, or choose muni caches over fuel and get less vehicles in late game.
You will also never see anybody spamming this ability during a single game.

Oh but you can:

http://www.coh2.org/topic/16985/luftwaffe-doktrine/post/150427


Take Close Air Support

Build only fuel caches

Stop Teching at BP2

Build No Tanks

Convert All Fuel to Munitions

BWHAHAHAHAHA!

Give soviets sound alert also!

No russian fighter-bomber had a diving bombing maneuver and a particular and badass Siren like the JU87 B-2 had, sorry

Oh but you can:

http://www.coh2.org/topic/16985/luftwaffe-doktrine/post/150427


Take Close Air Support

Build only fuel caches

Stop Teching at BP2

Build No Tanks

Convert All Fuel to Munitions

BWHAHAHAHAHA!

This is actually exactly what they did that prompted my initial post last night.

It was a 2v2 and the other player went for Jaeger armor. It didn't help that the game was on Minsk where the Elephant can really dominate because of the lane design of the map.

Anyhow, I disagree that this ability is 'easy' to dodge, especially in 2v2 (which is all I play recently.) You can't afford to move ALL your units every time you hear the sound. We're seeing Jaeger armor in almost every game and I'm seeing this ability more and more. It's the Zis that tend to get targeted especially once I get vet on them. Even if you try and move it very often it still gets destroyed. Vehicles aren't as much of an issue, but with the elephant around the Zis are usually key to staying in the late game. Once they're gone it's that much easier for the elephant to dominate.

No russian fighter-bomber had a diving bombing maneuver and a particular and badass Siren like the JU87 B-2 had, sorry

True, but you can hear the sound of motor of russian bomber to. Unless you are deaf))
Plus well distinguished smoke. Plus a devastating price of whole 200 muni.

Russian bombing run is a lot more easy to dodge. The price is higher, the damage is the same.

True, but you can hear the sound of motor of russian bomber to. Unless you are deaf))
Plus well distinguished smoke. Plus a devastating price of whole 200 muni.

Russian bombing run is a lot more easy to dodge. The price is higher, the damage is the same.

I'm pretty sure the damage is higher.

We don't balance around 3v3 and 4v4 at the expense of 1v1 and 2v2.

Units or abilities made useless in 1v1 or 2v2 for the sake of large team games is a complete waste (e.g. the Panther tank)

In 1v1 or 2v2 it's easy to dodge this air strike but 3v3 or 4v4 it has very big chance to hit. Comparing this to IL, IL is useless. Flares on the ground show where it's going to hit so all you need is to move few units. When you hear this noise, you have to move all of your units cause you never know where it will land.
Well, IL still can be useful but you need to stun tanks, immobilize and then strike. Sound like a joke when you see how much this ability costs.
Give soviets sound alert also!

IL-2 precision bombing strike does more damage (4x300) but has smaller splash radius (10)

Stuka dive bomb does 750 dmg however has a bigger splash radius (15).

Stuka dive bomb is cheaper, no flares and is most definitely harder to dodge than the IL-2 run.

CAS in this game makes no sense and is nowhere close to reality. 50kg bomb? I mean come on!

IL-2 precision bombing strike does more damage (4x300) but has smaller splash radius (10)

Stuka dive bomb does 750 dmg however has a bigger splash radius (15).

Stuka dive bomb is cheaper, no flares and is most definitely harder to dodge than the IL-2 run.

Thanks for bringing the numbers.

This is actually exactly what they did that prompted my initial post last night.

It was a 2v2 and the other player went for Jaeger armor. It didn't help that the game was on Minsk where the Elephant can really dominate because of the lane design of the map.

Anyhow, I disagree that this ability is 'easy' to dodge, especially in 2v2 (which is all I play recently.) You can't afford to move ALL your units every time you hear the sound. We're seeing Jaeger armor in almost every game and I'm seeing this ability more and more. It's the Zis that tend to get targeted especially once I get vet on them. Even if you try and move it very often it still gets destroyed. Vehicles aren't as much of an issue, but with the elephant around the Zis are usually key to staying in the late game. Once they're gone it's that much easier for the elephant to dominate.

Agreed that the player with the elephant will target zis guns heavily and this can be very hard to dodge.

The doctrine is very good in the late game and it is designed this way.

I would try these steps:

1) Use an inf flank to cause the elephant to turn towards you. While doing this send in t34's on the other side (even on Minsk this is possible).
2) Get either the T34's up to the elephant or the inf, the elephant cannot fire on the move.
3) If you get inf, get as many at nades on the elephant as possible to get damaged a engine. If t34's block its retreat path and fire into its butt.
4) One of you should have some artillery, any kind. Use it to keep paks away from the t34's while they beat on the elephant. Kats work well for this, but you can rely on call ins as well.
5) If you fail don't give up, the damage you dealt is still on the unit. Use artillery to keep pinging away at the elephant and killing pio's trying to repair it. If you got an damaged engine it can only just creep backwards.

One of you should also have SU85's or heavy tanks so once the elephant tries to engage the t34's these should be brought to the front line immediately. They should have been sitting just out of range of the elephant.

Make it your mission while they are fighting to send a unit like penal squad in to kill munitions caches extremely quickly while all this is going on. You must stop the munitions flow. If you can drop him <40 it will take almost 5 minutes to get a stuka dive bomb. Not even close to how fast you can field zis guns, assuming he does not use munitions for anything else in which case you will easily outpace him.

Never ever clump high value units, or if you do make it seem like a juicy target and then move them quickly to draw the strike.

Anyhow, I disagree that this ability is 'easy' to dodge, especially in 2v2 (which is all I play recently.) You can't afford to move ALL your units every time you hear the sound.

That's right. We can't afford that BUT do you think that MG or mortar? will be the target?
I guess the target will be ISU, IS, KV or something like that (maybe ZiS) so it's easy to predict where it's going to hit.

Agreed that the player with the elephant will target zis guns heavily and this can be very hard to dodge.

The doctrine is very good in the late game and it is designed this way.

I would try these steps:

1) Use an inf flank to cause the elephant to turn towards you. While doing this send in t34's on the other side (even on Minsk this is possible).

Wont work anymore, thanks to Hold Fire

IL-2 precision bombing strike does more damage (4x300) but has smaller splash radius (10)

Stuka dive bomb does 750 dmg however has a bigger splash radius (15).

Stuka dive bomb is cheaper, no flares and is most definitely harder to dodge than the IL-2 run.

Im just speculating here, but the splash damage might be per bomb.. i.e. the IL-2 has 4 bombs spread out slightly each with a splash radius of 10.


That would make logical sense to me, and explain the larger splash on the stuka.

Can M5 quad kill a diving Stuka?

Wont work anymore, thanks to Hold Fire

Yes and no. Hold fire will only prevent the elephant from firing, not prevent it from turning to target infantry. When it turns the wrong direction it opens up possibilities.

Also M5 cannot shoot down this Stuka as it is not really a plane, just a time delayed bomb.

If you could shoot it down it would probably result in a more deadly direct hit from the crashing plane seen as its a dive bomber lol

Yes and no. Hold fire will only prevent the elephant from firing, not prevent it from turning to target infantry. When it turns the wrong direction it opens up possibilities.

Also M5 cannot shoot down this Stuka as it is not really a plane, just a time delayed bomb.

LOL?? is that true? I need to test that piece of shit mistake from developers...

I do think two things to do with it could be rebalanced.

1) That it kills a howitzer in one. Obviously the howitzer can't dodge it and that's 600 mp down the drain as soon as it's revealed.

2) The Elephant doctrine has it. Which eliminates one of the few things that can hurt an Elephant - a howitzer/b4.

I'd like to see those things adjusted. Otherwise, it's fine.

So the problem is not really with stuka dive bomb? On map artillery is terrible right now, too easy to kill with anything really.

Sorry dude, just tested it, you are wrong, Elefant doesnt turn into anything while in Hold Fire... uff I was scared, I admit it XD, but as I said:

Hold Fire

Can M5 quad kill a diving Stuka?

No.