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Honest opinions about Balance - Soviet adv

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__deleted__
18 May 2014, 10:06 AM
#281
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2014, 09:56 AMOZtheWiZARD
They're missing 3v3 style PGrens blobs A-walking into everyone and everything. Destroying tanks, support weapons and infantry alike.


That actually never happened without serious casualities and amo investment, for the simple reason a schreck upgrade is 120 amo. 2 upgrades - 240. And so on. The bigger the "blob" the smallest the chance to have amo for anything else. More than this, even before T34s for instance (if we are talking about tanks) tore them to shreds. Or you could stop the infamous blob easily with 2 maxims.
Anyway, before the patch they were niche units - without schrecks good against T1 and conscripts infantry units and with schrecks good against Su-85s and any tipe of vehicle except vehicles with high damage against infantry.
Now, I'm really trying to find a purpose for them (when not schreck upgraded), except staying in green cover and watch a mortar or mgs back. For such purposes a 200 mp unit should do the trick, not a 340 mp one.
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FrikadelleXXL
18 May 2014, 10:07 AM
#282
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The fanboyism is strong in these ones :)
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198011483718
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__deleted__
18 May 2014, 10:07 AM
#283
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2014, 09:57 AMBurts
pgrens need a slight cost increase (360 mp) and be buffed back up to 1.2 armor.


I don't mind the price, allways german things were more expensive, but at list give german players something to play with.
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__deleted__
18 May 2014, 10:10 AM
#284
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2014, 10:07 AMFrikadelleXXL
The fanboyism is strong in these ones :)


The bias and hypocrisy are even stronger in you. Never heard an explanation or a motivation/argument for none of your posts. You only talk nonsenses.
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FrikadelleXXL
18 May 2014, 10:13 AM
#285
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Posts: 390

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jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2014, 10:10 AM__deleted__


The bias and hypocrisy are even stronger in you. Never heard an explanation or a motivation/argument for none of your posts. You only talk nonsenses.


Actually, you did decide to ignore me, didn't you? :P Well it's clear that some people hear don't want to hear objective arguments in order to get the game back in the state prepatch where you could roflstomp everything with da germanz übermenschen.

I think PG's are fine atm. You have to flank and adapt the enemy tanks, not just run into them. In real life you don't run into a tank frontally. Otherwhise it would kill you...
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198011483718
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__deleted__
18 May 2014, 10:16 AM
#286
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2014, 10:13 AMFrikadelleXXL




I think PG's are fine atm.



I could bet all my money you do, no need to tell me.
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FrikadelleXXL
18 May 2014, 10:19 AM
#287
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2014, 10:16 AM__deleted__


I could bet all my money you do, no need to tell me.


Very constructive post from you! Look at all da argumenz u gave! Much hypocrisy.


Maybe we could discuss how well the PG - Nerf affected the dynamic in 3vs3 or 4s4? No more silly shreck blobs roflstomping everything, but more tactics are needed now!
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198011483718
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dasheepeh
18 May 2014, 10:24 AM
#288
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All i see in this thread is complaining about PG's and Con spam. But Gren spam is completely fine?
servant to the vet 5 königskübel

b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast

fan of the illustrious black prince
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Porygon
18 May 2014, 12:26 PM
#289
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2014, 10:24 AMdasheepeh
All i see in this thread is complaining about PG's and Con spam. But Gren spam is completely fine?


It is fine because Gren spam now only rewarded with good micro, any Gren slightly out of position would be quickly vaporized.
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FrikadelleXXL
18 May 2014, 13:52 PM
#290
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2014, 12:26 PMPorygon


It is fine because Gren spam now only rewarded with good micro, any Gren slightly out of position would be quickly vaporized.


By what exactly?
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Katitof
18 May 2014, 14:03 PM
#291
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2014, 13:52 PMFrikadelleXXL


By what exactly?


Conscript superior long range firepower obviously.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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coh2player
18 May 2014, 14:11 PM
#292
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Posts: 1571

The key weakness of German infantry has been the four man squad for me. They get squad wiped easier by indirect fire and tank shells. Also, they are simply less useful for remanning support weapons. So basically, in order to have infantry presence on the field I have to rely on a 251. Still, I get more squad wipes than with soviet infantry.

This is why i like the ostruppen...
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Porygon
18 May 2014, 14:22 PM
#293
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jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2014, 14:03 PMKatitof


Conscript superior long short range firepower obviously.
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Cardboard Tank
18 May 2014, 15:18 PM
#294
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Posts: 978

Things that need to be fixed to balance the game (other than the super tank discussion):

Infantry:
- Panzergrenadiere need more armor
- MG 42 needs slightly more suppression

German T4 needs to be useful:
- Panther buff (preferably frontal-armor as everything goes through)

Artillery buff:
- to 152mm and 105mm howitzers
- to Katjuscha and Panzerwerfer


The biggest issue with Germans is their useless units late game if you don´t go for a Tiger or Elefant doctrine. The Panther is joke on tracks. Also Conscripts ooraaing into MG42s head on and still getting off that Molotov is shit balance early game. Finally the lack of Elite infantry is stupid. Panzergrenadiere just give away free Schrecks for the enemy now.
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coh2player
18 May 2014, 15:38 PM
#295
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Posts: 1571

^
I actually prefer if German T4 is never buffed ever again..The Germans have their mighty Tiger, and the Brummbar is better than it used to be.

the Panther has become somewhat of a 'mobile defense' unit that exploits its 50 range/high speed for sniper shots. It is no longer the offensive T4 spam unit of choice that it was for a year. All the Soviets have is their 'mobile defense' SU-85. I find that much more fair than it was before.
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FrikadelleXXL
18 May 2014, 17:19 PM
#296
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Posts: 390

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Properly microed Grens never lose to Cons. So Gren Spam needs maxims to handle it
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198011483718
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Bulgakov
18 May 2014, 17:43 PM
#297
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Posts: 987

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2014, 10:13 AMFrikadelleXXL


Actually, you did decide to ignore me, didn't you? :P Well it's clear that some people hear don't want to hear objective arguments in order to get the game back in the state prepatch where you could roflstomp everything with da germanz übermenschen.

I think PG's are fine atm. You have to flank and adapt the enemy tanks, not just run into them. In real life you don't run into a tank frontally. Otherwhise it would kill you...



I agree that earlier patches were imba in favour of the Germans. It wasn't good I'm glad it changed.

But you seem to see that as a reason that now the Germans should remain in their current state and refuse to consider the possibility that the soviets need some nerfs. Some German units need nerfs too.


The main thing I can't agree with is when you talk about objective arguments. I've skimmed through all your posts and counted the following unobjective comments.

"fanboy" - 12
"L2p" / "learn to play" x6
"whine/whining" - 9


You also tend to write like this:
"Oha, German player needs to micro? Better nurf sovs!!! Dis unit must be OP if I can't run straight into it with ma terminatorz Pgren - Squad! Suddenly I have to use Combined Arms like da sovs, I wunt to roflstump evrything with mah well balanced Tanks!! Only sovs have to micro hard, otherwhise my 10$ 1337-keyboard would hurt mah fingaz!!"


A lot of your posts make reading threads on CoH2 unpleasant. I can accept your Soviet bias, just as I accept I have a slight German bias that makes me less objective. But we can discuss these diagreements calmly instead of trolling. At least I hope we can.



My first request is that you post a replay of you using Panzergrens to good effect, to back up yor argument that they are fine. At least 3 PGs (preferably against an opponent with several Maxims). If you do, I'll be glad to post a replay of me as Soviets spamming Maxims. What do you say?


Let's keep it constructive
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Burts
18 May 2014, 17:49 PM
#298
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Posts: 1702

the panther is a tough one. On one hand, it is coompletely unviable in 1v1s now (except maybe when your opponent goes for ISU-152 in 1v1 (which is also pretty rare).

However if you make it viable in 1v1s,how do you make it not OP in team games. That's the problem really.

Balance might not be hard to do for 1v1s, and that's where the game is in a good state now 1v1s its pretty balanced.

However, 2v2s and bigger are somewhat of a different story because the "you can only have one tier out of 2" for soviets no longer applies. So its tricky really.



I think what cruzz suggested works best. Require T3 for tigers and elephants (or maybe even T4 for the elephant) and t3 or t4 for soviet call ins. Maybe the t-34/85 could even replace the 76 in T3 completely if you picked a doc with it?


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__deleted__
18 May 2014, 18:03 PM
#299
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Posts: 807

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2014, 17:43 PMBulgakov



I agree that earlier patches were imba in favour of the Germans. It wasn't good I'm glad it changed.

But you seem to see that as a reason that now the Germans should remain in their current state and refuse to consider the possibility that the soviets need some nerfs. Some German units need nerfs too.


The main thing I can't agree with is when you talk about objective arguments. I've skimmed through all your posts and counted the following unobjective comments.

"fanboy" - 12
"L2p" / "learn to play" x6
"whine/whining" - 9


You also tend to write like this:
"Oha, German player needs to micro? Better nurf sovs!!! Dis unit must be OP if I can't run straight into it with ma terminatorz Pgren - Squad! Suddenly I have to use Combined Arms like da sovs, I wunt to roflstump evrything with mah well balanced Tanks!! Only sovs have to micro hard, otherwhise my 10$ 1337-keyboard would hurt mah fingaz!!"


A lot of your posts make reading threads on CoH2 unpleasant. I can accept your Soviet bias, just as I accept I have a slight German bias that makes me less objective. But we can discuss these diagreements calmly instead of trolling. At least I hope we can.



My first request is that you post a replay of you using Panzergrens to good effect, to back up yor argument that they are fine. At least 3 PGs (preferably against an opponent with several Maxims). If you do, I'll be glad to post a replay of me as Soviets spamming Maxims. What do you say?


This post seems to be the superior german tactic owning the soviet bias. B-)
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Cardboard Tank
18 May 2014, 18:19 PM
#300
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Posts: 978

The problem with the Panther:

- It got nerfed
a) Less armor on vet 2
b) Less health on vet 0 and vet 1

- Blitz was made useless

- It´s price was increased

- While Soviet tanks (especially the T-34/76) got buffed

You don´t only have a nerfed, more expensive Panther without a useful ability, but also the Russians have better vehicles now. That´s too much.
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