Cruzz's fantasy patch thread

These changes are mostly aimed at increasing viability of underused units and abilities and fixing some issues with popular units. Pretty much purely from a 1vs1 perspective because it's the only gamemode I regularly play.

Unit changes:

German sniper: to 64 hp (from 48)
German halftrack: flamer upgrade down to 90 munitions (from 120)
Panzerfaust: trigger range to 23 (from 25).
Add 125mp/30f research for pioneer demolition charges for germans.
Elefant: range to 75 (from 100)
Tiger: AOE radius reduced to 3.0 (from 3.5)
MG42: setup time reduced to 2.5 seconds (from 3.0)
Panzergrenadiers: 1.2 armor (from 1)
Trench: health doubled
Pak43/LeFH/ML-20/B4: Increase gun health significantly (350/470 --> 620)
AT Gun camo (both sides): Reduce movement penalty to 50%
Guard grenade: Reduce AOE radius to 4 (from 4.5)
S-mine buildtime increased to 5 seconds (from 2.5)
Soviet TM-35 mine: Damage far to 0.2 (from 1)
KV-1: Increase front armor to 290 (from 240).
M42 45mm AT gun: increase damage to 100 (from 80), increase penetration to 130/95/60 (from 100/80/60)
ISU152: range to 75 (from 100)
KV-2: Decrease manpower cost to 540 (from 630)
Sherman: Reload speed slowed down by 0.75s
Maxim: team crew logic changed to mimic how soviet MG42 teams setup
PPSH damage drop-off for midrange improved, damage at range 12 to ~1.2 (from 0.8)
M3 cost to 200M/15F (from 190/10)
Riegel Mines: trigger on M3s

Heavy vehicles now require tech before they can be called in:
Tiger, Elefant require Battle Phase 3 OR T3 building
Command Tank, Puma, Stug E requires Battle Phase 2
KV-1, KV-2, KV-8, IS-2, ISU-152, T34-85, Sherman require either T3 or T4 building.

Commander ability changes:

Sector Artillery: Make ability either predict unit movement, or reduce time to arrive significantly
Stuka Close Air Support: Tracking of target improved massively, first round should always hit on target and further ones then try to track target as much as the plane turn rate allows.
Rapid Conscription/Relief infantry: show how many more losses you need to take to get a new squad on top of the ability icon. Decrease cost by 20 munitions.
Vehicle Detection: to 30 munitions (from 60)
Fear Propaganda: Guaranteed suppress on every tick in AOE. Pin and Retreat chances unchanged.
Stuka 50kg bomb drop: Damage to 600 (from 750). Damage far to 0.3 (from 0.25) to keep aoe.
Reduce Soviet Industry manpower penalty to 40 (from 65). Reduce fuel income to 11 (from 13)

Unit veterancy changes:

Soviet Sniper Vet1 Sprint: Increase cost by 15 munitions
Blitzkrieg Tactics: Increase speed max by 0.3 while engine not damaged.
German sniper: incendiary rounds available at vet0, vet1 infantry awareness
Puma: Target Weak Point replaced with Infantry Awareness (or Blitz)
Counter-Barrage: Reduce scatter angle and scatter distance by 25% compared to normal barrage. Give same range as normal barrage.

General gameplay changes:

Demolition charges in the area of a minesweeper can be attacked and destroyed with small arms.
Removal of heavy engine crit chance from faust/atnade
Reinstate plane direction controls from vcoh for plane-based offmap abilities.
Fix automatic reload when a squad weapon (Shreks, PTRS, etc) gets swapped to another member due to model death.
Attack radius of all plane loiter abilities shown on map for both sides with a red circle.
Remanning team weapons: Weapons get remanned with the minimum crew count (1 for 120mm, 2 for anything else).
Show team weapon health bar on crewed weapon teams.

Map Changes:

Fix hedges. Many hedgerows in the game still have very strange behaviour in terms of unit vision. Hedgerows on Semois summer (such as the ones near the strategic point on the left that connects to the munitions point) let you see through them but don't allow direct fire units like snipers to fire through. Hedgerows on Langres behave irrationally after they are destroyed, units won't autofire even into a unit that is just sitting where the hedges used to be in complete view, or any units behind the destroyed hedges. Yet abilities that require direct line of sight like the B4 anti-tank shot still work over these flattened hedgerows but won't over the intact ones.

Crossing in the Woods: Similar to the hedge problem, this map features numerous points where units can't fire through despite having full vision (bushes at the strategic points next to corner fuels, trees around the water crossings)

Road to Kharkov: Redesign the north cutoff by moving or completely removing the bigger building overlooking it and getting rid of the trees that block view of the cutoff when coming from the north base.

Langres Winter: Remove a large portion of heavy snow, particularly from around the two munition points.

Kholodny Summer/Winter: Move right side south cut-off strategic point a bit to the right.


Commander tree changes:

German infantry doctrine: Replace Relief Infantry with G43 upgrade. Replace Fragmentation Bomb with fuel to munitions transfer.

Defensive doctrine (both factions): Change the commander ability to "doubled health on tank traps and halved build time on all defensive structures", add tank traps to the normal build options of pioneers and combat engineers.

NKVD Rifle Disruption: Replace Rapid Conscription with ppsh. Any good ideas what else to do while staying in an NKVD theme?

Soviet combined army: Replace AT gun camo with KV-1 call-in.


Reasonings for changes:
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If this was a incoming patchnote it sure would be nice. Good job!

Not sure though on the heavy heavies, isnt from 100 to 75 a bit of a over-nerf for the isu and ele? Imo these units should hold on to there unique abilities without being op. So maybe some other change than the range?

If this was a incoming patchnote it sure would be nice. Good job!

Not sure though on the heavy heavies, isnt from 100 to 75 a bit of a over-nerf for the isu and ele? Imo these units should hold on to there unique abilities without being op. So maybe some other change than the range?

Sure it's also possible to just change their other statistics while leaving the range, for 1vs1s anyway. I do think that as long as the range isn't changed, even dropping their health values significantly will still make team games revolve around these units because the 40+ range advantage they have over any other vehicle is generally too good to skip except on a few extremely cluttered maps. The only real alternative I see that doesn't involve straight out dropping the range, is to implement a KV-2 style immobile, setup required mode to get 100 range and leave them at like 60 while they're mobile.

Add Commisar to NKVD doctrine (one of the 1943 ToW missions has this unit) to replace il-2 call-in.

Otherwise very good changes, the best part is the heavy call-ins require teching.

How about for Ele and ISU only having their super range when on focus sight (thus slowing them down)? The rest of the time they have say 75-80 range...?

How about for Ele and ISU only having their super range when on focus sight (thus slowing them down)? The rest of the time they have say 75-80 range...?

Everyone already focus sights on them anyway (especially the ele because with scope it has insane vision that way) because there's very little reason not to. Turning it off is instant, so you still have full mobility on demand and not like these things fire on the move anyway so having reduced range while moving doesn't matter at all.

Overall I like your suggestions but I think the ISU-152/Elefant balance needs to be solved in a different way (for example by implementig some sort of "vCoH-Marder III"-mechanic.

"Heavy tank call-in tech requirement:
Call-in tanks with no tech are still a dominant strategy, and will continue to be as long as there is no significant change in unit balance. It is extremely difficult to gain a big enough advantage with tech units to make up for the sunk cost in getting them as the heavy call-ins are definitely not any more inefficient cost performance wise than tech units even ignoring the tech costs. To even the field even a little bit, call-ins should require some level of tech as well."

Glad to hear a top player say this. I brought up a similar concern with Puma completley overshadowing Soviet T3 and any use of the T70 since its so fast, has such range, is so durable, and has Target Weakpoint. Also Two Pumas to every T34 (due to tech cost) doesnt make up for the T34 being just a tad bit better (but alot more expensive).

I am SICK TO DEATH of the call in meta.

I agree with this thread on all points and would like to also add. Please work on the Urban Defense commander. He is a paid commander and sucks. Cant even use it on Crossing in the woods due to a bug with the buildings.

Elephnat and ISU range is not the problem. Let it be 100 but just reduce accuracy. For example (idk how this is sovled. Its just example) 1-50 95% chance to hit, 51-60 85% and over 60 it could be drastically decreased, 61-70 70%, 71-80 60%, 81-90 50% and 91-100 35%. That is just example how mechanic should works in my opinion.

NKVD Rifle Disruption: The most horrible soviet doctrine. Kinda hard to work around as the "NKVD" theme doesn't really allow tanks or much anything. Giving it ppsh gives you the ability to rush in after a fear propaganda and actually do a lot of damage if opponent stays around. I guess we could also add guards instead of the IL-2, though to be honest guards are rather munition heavy as well and don't really fit the theme (neither does IL-2 though). Anyone got any good ideas?

Well from an idea for an NKVD themed tree I had before were Internal Troops as a defensive unit. Their special property was effectiveness tied to the output of the sector they inhabit. So Internal Troops on a resource point would be rather average, and in Enemy territory they'd be pretty useless, but if you plop them on a resource point they'll protect it from flankers or generic attackers like Grenadiers.

Perhaps they could use a "fortify" ability where they dig a slit trench and hop in automatically in order to get the bonus (they're supposed to be a set it and forget it unit, like a bunker only you walk it there).

Excellent changes, but what do you mean with teh crew logic of the maxim? I think they just stick to whatever cover is the closest.
Can I ask what is your opinion on the T-70 now?

Excellent changes, but what do you mean with teh crew logic of the maxim? I think they just stick to whatever cover is the closest.
Can I ask what is your opinion on the T-70 now?

Right now, if you try command the maxim to setup into cover, all the guys will run over there and manhug each other in a cuddly ball just waiting for a riflenade. Maxim will also quite often clump up like this even in a completely open field, requiring several attempts to set it up before you get a nice spread on the members. The soviet MG42 team largely deploys in a cone with gunner in front and the rest quite far back, limiting the effectiveness of explosions on the squad by a huge margin.

I think T70s are just fine. They're an anti-infantry harassment unit and they do that very well indeed. If anything their max range accuracy is maybe even a bit too good, but as a fairly fuel expensive, 320 hp unit I'd be wary of changing them much. Pumas make them pointless right now, but this is an issue with pumas and not the T70.

Agree 100%

Right now, if you try command the maxim to setup into cover, all the guys will run over there and manhug each other in a cuddly ball just waiting for a riflenade. Maxim will also quite often clump up like this even in a completely open field, requiring several attempts to set it up before you get a nice spread on the members. The soviet MG42 team largely deploys in a cone with gunner in front and the rest quite far back, limiting the effectiveness of explosions on the squad by a huge margin.

I think T70s are just fine. They're an anti-infantry harassment unit and they do that very well indeed. If anything their max range accuracy is maybe even a bit too good, but as a fairly fuel expensive, 320 hp unit I'd be wary of changing them much. Pumas make them pointless right now, but this is an issue with pumas and not the T70.

I like all of these ideas. The only thing I would add is some kind of change to AOE, or perhaps a damage reduction from armor rounds across the board (with an HP reduction in vehicles to keep the ratios the same). Infantry is too squishy right now, fresh full health Gren squads are getting 1-shotted by mines, and everybody already knows how I feel about the ISU.

I like all of these ideas. The only thing I would add is some kind of change to AOE, or perhaps a damage reduction from armor rounds across the board (with an HP reduction in vehicles to keep the ratios the same). Infantry is too squishy right now, fresh full health Gren squads are getting 1-shotted by mines, and everybody already knows how I feel about the ISU.

I agree, but this was mostly a list of outliers that I feel should be changed. The current tank AOE thing is very much an issue with every single unit, some of them (like the Tiger, which I had listed because I think it's overperforming compared to previous patches even among this silly AOE madness) just worse than others.

I did have a soviet mine damage reduction in there, though purely as a damage drop-off modifier. But atleast it would stop normally spread out squads from getting wiped like what is happening right now.

Exemplary balance thread, whether you agree with proposed changes or not. Well done, Cruzz.

My comments:

-Instead of replacing "Rapid conscription" and "Relief Infantry" with other abilities, I'd rather see these made more useful.
(eg. Add a small accuracy or fire rate boost to all infantry while ability is active.)

- I actually think PPSH is in a good place now. I don't think it should be better at mid-range than it already is because it's not a global upgrade so there should be a tradeoff to getting it. You're paying for the opportunity of having a more specialized unit in the end, not for pure DPS.

If anything, I'd like other purchasable weapons to have stronger tradeoffs as well. (eg. Even lower lmg42 DPS at close range to emphasize its use at mid to far ranges.)

These changes are actually good ideas. However, there are some that I have to disagree with. German's should not pay extra for demo charges it should have it given like Engineers. I said the same for conscript nades a while back. Stuka bomb drop shouldn't be nerfed, the damage it does is weak as it is rarely do I see it destroy a tank.

I'd rather see Soviet sniper sprint removed.

German infantry doctrine: Replace Relief Infantry with G43 upgrade.

NKVD Rifle Disruption: Replace Rapid Conscription with ppsh. Any good ideas what else to do while staying in an NKVD theme?

NOOOOOOOO. NEIN!

Relief infantry and Rapid conscription are my favorite commander abilities. I use NKVD a lot and would hate to see RC go. Instead, the IL-2 strafe could be replaced by something else like a NKVD officer squad. The Strafe is too costly in ammo for the doctrine and NKVD officer is in perfect tune with the doctrine.

The german infantry doctrine could use some changes, but RI should stay in it. If it became just another G43 doctrine I wouldn't use it over the other, better G43 doctrines. How about assault grens, ambush cammo, RI, sprint, light arty barrage? I feel there is a need for another doctrine with ambush cammo since Storm doctrine is rather meh.

I also think fear propaganda artillery is fine as it is.

Other than that I agree with nearly every point. Especially the changes to call-in structure. Just changing that would improve the game significantly.

-Instead of replacing "Rapid conscription" and "Relief Infantry" with other abilities, I'd rather see these made more useful.
(eg. Add a small accuracy or fire rate boost to all infantry while ability is active.)

The problem with leaving these abilities in already weak commanders is that they're just not generally that useful abilities. There are plenty of game moments where I really wouldn't want to trade 120mp-240mp and 120 (or 100 for my change) munitions to gain 1-2 osttruppen squads. Meanwhile I'm pretty much certain to want to get G43s if I have access to them. They are good "filler" abilities in commanders like Lightning War that already have good abilities overall, but they should be the first abilities replaced in commanders that are clearly underperforming right now.

- I actually think PPSH is in a good place now. I don't think it should be better at mid-range than it already is because it's not a global upgrade so there should be a tradeoff to getting it. You're paying for the opportunity of having a more specialized unit in the end, not for pure DPS.

If anything, I'd like other purchasable weapons to have stronger tradeoffs as well

Let me give you an example picture. Tell me, do you think that ppsh are in effective range in this picture?

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Answer:
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These are pretty solid. I've long thought that 100 range on the Elefant/ISU was unnecessary and that a better balance could be struck at 70-80. Just having a range advantage is enough to make a unit valuable as it buts the burden of attacking on the enemy player.

I am concerned about giving Blitzkrieg Tactics a 30% movement speed buff. When you consider that all vehicles in the new patch already move 20% faster then the buffed Blitzkrieg tactics would be 56% faster (presuming multiplicative). That could be a bit much for AT guns and other fixed weapons who have not seen any rotational buffs to counter the speed buff from previous patch. The faster you go the more relevant that accuracy modifier becomes as well, right?

I agree with the fundamental idea of the change though! I'd go for a 15% and see if the ability is valuable then.