Soviet TM 35 Mine

Hi there.

Since the last big patch this thing bothers me so hard, I can NOT imagine none else feels the same: your (Panzer-)Grenadier suqad suddenly disappears from your unit bar -> Soviet TM 35 mine ate them!
Right now you have to be lucky if your squad survives the blast not vice versa.

Considering the very low cost of 30 munitions for this mine indicates more of an support tool for area denial and crippeling vehicles/tanks not for whiping whole squads, which is abused quite heavily right now from what I have seen.

As the person I am I did a little research on this subject and started digging the numbers.
My result: the TM 35 mine is clearly overpowered statwise.

For explosive weapons 4 stats are important in this case:
1. Damage
2. Blast radius
3. Damage modifier for blast zones (near / far)
4. Accuracy modifier for blast zones (near / far)

As Relic told us the way damage is dealt within an explosive blast have been changed in an update.

Before the update it was RNG (accuarcy varying) if an entity get damaged by a blast at the outer area of a blast radius and if so damage was high.
Now there is no RNG (accuarcy 500% fix) at outer blast radius, damage is always dealt but lower.

TM 35:
1. 200
2. 5
3. 100% / 100%
4. 500% / 500%

So the soviet mine does always 200 damage at a radius of 5 -> Complete DEAD ZONE! (i may remind you all infantry has 80 hitpoints).

What this numbers mean is best shown by referencing some other explosive weapons.

Ostheer anti personal mine:
1. 40
2. 5
3. 100% / 100%
4. 500% / 500%

So it has the same blast radius as the TM 35 and also does full damage inside the complete radius, but it only deals 40 damage (I may remind you all infantry has 80 hitpoints).

Another example...

Ostheer leFH 18:
1. 200
2. 7.5
3. 100% / 15%
4. 500% / 500%

You see the differnce? It has the same damage as the TM 35 mine and an even bigger blast radius but it only deals 15% damage to the outer area of the blast radius. So the damage scales down the more away from the center of the blast.

To me it looks like the Soviet TM 35 is missing this down scaling (forgotton? overseen? intended???).
In the combination with the cheap cost and availabilty right from the start, this weapong is a real abusive problem and should be patched ASAP!

Any word form Relic (hello Pq ) on this subject would be much appreciated.

regards
ace

I'm a bit conflicted. On the one hand, I think both the Soviet TM35 and the S-mines should not do 100% damage in their entire radius. Both types of mines are incredibly powerful at the moment.

On the other hand, 2 engie/pio squads with mine sweepers solve the problem. Whenever I see a my opponent (be it vs Soviets or Germans) go a whole game without sweepers I can't help thinking to myself "well, he had it coming for underestimating mines". Whenever I play against someone like Cruzz who often goes for dual sweepers I can mine all day long and I won't kill a damn thing.

just because an element of the game can be counterable doesnt mean its damage can go out of control.

What would be the point of mines if they weren't a threat? If mines didnt kill my squads, i wouldn't upgrade pios to get a minesweeper.

What would be the point of mines if they weren't a threat? If mines didnt kill my squads, i wouldn't upgrade pios to get a minesweeper.

+1

What would be the point of mines if they weren't a threat? If mines didnt kill my squads, i wouldn't upgrade pios to get a minesweeper.

No one is saying mines shouldn't kill models. What we are saying is that reliably killing 3 models and sometimes killing 4 models is too much, especially for the cost.

No one is saying mines shouldn't kill models. What we are saying is that reliably killing 3 models and sometimes killing 4 models is too much, especially for the cost.

I usually lose one squad, then i get minesweepers, then the problem never happens again and i unearth 200 munitions worth of mines for 45 munitions. I usually just shoot the mines when i detect them, though. Is it really that much of a chore?

I just go minesweepers regardless. Better safe than sorry.

Yeah and compared to COH1, remember the good ole time when riflemen can lay mines? Imagine if there is a commander that enables cons to lay mines, there will be much QQ from Ost player.

You should be able to make a decision about whether or not you want to risk hitting mines or waiting for sweepers. Right now you can't do anything but wait for sweepers, and that is boring. I guess you can risk hitting mines and losing squads like I do, but it's not really a good idea.

I don't know why they ever changed how mines worked, in vCoH they worked great as they basically never wiped squads unless they bunched up, but they always suppressed squads so they had additional utility if you had a unit nearby to take advantage.

I don't like instant-wiping in principle. I also think this is an unintended consequence of grenade adjustments so it's probably going to get fixed...

I played four games as Ostheer today and I kept track of when my squads hit mines. A total of 7 mines were hit and 5 times out of 7 I had fresh, full hp squads get wiped by this mine. the other two times were also full hp squads and they lost 3 models.

These mines were fine before the patch, hopefully Neo is right and the changes to the AOE profiles for tank shells and grenades caused this "bug". Sweepers do work, but the fact that you can pretty much reliably trade 30 muni for a guaranteed squad wipe is kind of ridiculous.

I played four games as Ostheer today and I kept track of when my squads hit mines. A total of 7 mines were hit and 5 times out of 7 I had fresh, full hp squads get wiped by this mine. the other two times were also full hp squads and they lost 3 models.

These mines were fine before the patch, hopefully Neo is right and the changes to the AOE profiles for tank shells and grenades caused this "bug". Sweepers do work, but the fact that you can pretty much reliably trade 30 muni for a guaranteed squad wipe is kind of ridiculous.

+1

Losing a full health squad for 30 munitions in the beginning of the game is a huge drawback. Relic should fix this asap.

I don't like instant-wiping in principle. I also think this is an unintended consequence of grenade adjustments so it's probably going to get fixed...

Then you probably will not like any RTS ever created as all of them have a means to one shot stuff and coh mines are actually one of less powerful things at that.

Get mine sweeper and problem solved.
If you are walking over more then a single mine, its because you have chosen to go over them.

@katitof
answer this please :
Since patch, do you have the feeling that TM35 mine kill a full squad easier than prepatch. For me, it's yes.
If yes, did Relic intended it. For me, it's no, but only Relic can answer.

That's simple, people knows how to counter mines. People are not discussing that.

So you want mines to behave more like flowers? is that it?

@katitof
answer this please :
Since patch, do you have the feeling that TM35 mine kill a full squad easier than prepatch. For me, it's yes.
If yes, did Relic intended it. For me, it's no, but only Relic can answer.

That's simple, people knows how to counter mines. People are not discussing that.

Yes and no.
I don't seem to be wiping squads with mines as soviets, but I did loose two of them during one game.
If I was to calculate that, I'd say one out of ten mines wipes squads on average.

I'm not screaming for nerf and neither defending them, I'd like to see dev word on this as well, but it do not seem that much more frequent then before.

I also don't believe that mines should never squad wipe, because it makes absolutely no sense to me.

I played four games as Ostheer today and I kept track of when my squads hit mines. A total of 7 mines were hit and 5 times out of 7 I had fresh, full hp squads get wiped by this mine. the other two times were also full hp squads and they lost 3 models.

These mines were fine before the patch, hopefully Neo is right and the changes to the AOE profiles for tank shells and grenades caused this "bug". Sweepers do work, but the fact that you can pretty much reliably trade 30 muni for a guaranteed squad wipe is kind of ridiculous.

Did you build minesweepers after that?

Also I place my mines on roads most of the time as they are transportation routes for tanks more often than not. Does negative armour modifier affects mines damage? If yes, maybe that's the reason of squad wipes?