Relic, Please make all T-34/85 single call-in
29 Apr 2014, 08:46 AM
#21
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Actually, the biggest difference between single and double call-in is, single call-in allows you to get a T3 or T4 unit and you will still afford single call-in, if you go for that with double call-in, 34-85s will not arrive before tiger.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
29 Apr 2014, 09:18 AM
#22
Posts: 1163
I really don't buy the so called "shock value"
Its simple, it takes a while to get to 9 CP, esspecially if you dont build a tier, so by the time you DO get 9 CP, you really need dual 85's to hit the field, as you normally have a lot of 'clearing out' to do by that point.
Only getting one 85 and having to wait for cool down to run, could mean youve lost the game by then, or your opponent has seen your 85 and built a counter in time.
29 Apr 2014, 09:28 AM
#23
Posts: 954
Actually, the biggest difference between single and double call-in is, single call-in allows you to get a T3 or T4 unit and you will still afford single call-in, if you go for that with double call-in, 34-85s will not arrive before tiger.
This,
in order to get the double call-in, the 720MP 260fuel will greatly reduce the versatility of the army structure if you want your 2 T-34/85 hits the field earlier than the Tiger or Panthers.
The only thing I'm shocked is how people exaggerating the "shock" value which double call-in gives you. Cheaper only 40MP 20fuel but makes you so much harder to replenish your losses and delay your amor depolyment is obviously doesn't worth the "shock value"
the double call-in makes your army lacking any armor in the med-game in order to save these absurd amount of resources.
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
29 Apr 2014, 09:34 AM
#24
Posts: 1163
Considering the 34/85 is one of the best medium tanks in the game (if not the best), and comes as a call in needing no teck structure. Its going to need certain 'disadvantages' to stop it from being an automatic spam choice.
In its dual form, its supposed to come as a late-mid game armour power house.
Having it as a single call in, makes it a more affordable mid game easy call in. The disadvantage of the doctrine including this is the lack or arty, compensating for the easier called 85.
In its dual form, its supposed to come as a late-mid game armour power house.
Having it as a single call in, makes it a more affordable mid game easy call in. The disadvantage of the doctrine including this is the lack or arty, compensating for the easier called 85.
29 Apr 2014, 09:34 AM
#25
Posts: 747
This,in order to get the double call-in, the 720MP 260fuel will greatly reduce the versatility of the army structure.
As it is with every bigger call-in. The more ressources you have to save up for it, the bigger is it's actual impact on the battlefield.
29 Apr 2014, 09:35 AM
#26
Posts: 954
Considering the 34/85 is one of the best medium tanks in the game (if not the best), and comes as a call in needing no teck structure. Its going to need certain 'disadvantages' to stop it from being an automatic spam choice.
In its dual form, its supposed to come as a late-mid game armour power house.
Having it as a single call in, makes it a more affordable mid game easy call in. The disadvantage of the doctrine including this is the lack or arty, compensating for the easier called 85.
Same goes for Puma Sherman Tiger ISU-152 Elefant AssGen, Stugs, this argument is really irrelevant.
None of above suffers from a double-call in.
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
29 Apr 2014, 09:49 AM
#27
Posts: 954
Its simple, it takes a while to get to 9 CP, esspecially if you dont build a tier, so by the time you DO get 9 CP, you really need dual 85's to hit the field, as you normally have a lot of 'clearing out' to do by that point.
So, normally you can save up to 740MP and 260fuel in the med-game for "clearing out", or you just forget to build something or your opponent is a noob and inflict little to none casualties to your army. In fact during a normal fight ( no even call it intensive) saving this vast amount of resources is very hard.
Only getting one 85 and having to wait for cool down to run, could mean youve lost the game by then, or your opponent has seen your 85 and built a counter in time.
Only getting one T-34/85 and waiting for a cool-down will mean I've lost my game?
I have no idea what are you talking about.
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
29 Apr 2014, 09:53 AM
#28
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Same goes for Puma Sherman Tiger ISU-152 Elefant AssGen, Stugs, this argument is really irrelevant.
None of above suffers from a double-call in.
New random osttruppen do
but that would be arguing for the sake of arguing really.Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
29 Apr 2014, 10:30 AM
#29
Posts: 747
Do you remember this match? OMGPOP's strategy lived from the double t-34/85s "shock value".
29 Apr 2014, 10:47 AM
#30
Posts: 577
I'd not like if all the call ins were single. The single call in is to supplement a normal build (often T4) with a single tank to add some flanking power. It has a (comparably) long cooldown, meaning with the Single Call In you have a hard time if you just want to rely on it.
The dual call in on the other hand is perfect to supplement a T1/2 build - saving for them is actually rather easy since you do not need to build T3 or T4. Saving this (as well as the discount resources) is simply part of the risk/reward structure. You have a higher risk (float a lot of resources, have no tanks for a long time), but when you get them it's at a really cheap cost and comparably early. Like Charlie Dont Surf said - It can make a huge difference if I can field 2 tanks instantly or if I have to wait 90 seconds after the first for the next.
I like it and considering there is a commander with the single and ones with the double I'd support this variety to supplement both playstyles.
The dual call in on the other hand is perfect to supplement a T1/2 build - saving for them is actually rather easy since you do not need to build T3 or T4. Saving this (as well as the discount resources) is simply part of the risk/reward structure. You have a higher risk (float a lot of resources, have no tanks for a long time), but when you get them it's at a really cheap cost and comparably early. Like Charlie Dont Surf said - It can make a huge difference if I can field 2 tanks instantly or if I have to wait 90 seconds after the first for the next.
I like it and considering there is a commander with the single and ones with the double I'd support this variety to supplement both playstyles.
29 Apr 2014, 11:00 AM
#31
Posts: 954
I'd not like if all the call ins were single. The single call in is to supplement a normal build (often T4) with a single tank to add some flanking power. It has a (comparably) long cooldown, meaning with the Single Call In you have a hard time if you just want to rely on it.
The dual call in on the other hand is perfect to supplement a T1/2 build - saving for them is actually rather easy since you do not need to build T3 or T4. Saving this (as well as the discount resources) is simply part of the risk/reward structure. You have a higher risk (float a lot of resources, have no tanks for a long time), but when you get them it's at a really cheap cost and comparably early. Like Charlie Dont Surf said - It can make a huge difference if I can field 2 tanks instantly or if I have to wait 90 seconds after the first for the next.
I like it and considering there is a commander with the single and ones with the double I'd support this variety to supplement both playstyles.
The resources difference is only 20MP and 10 fuel. and that's it.
Like Katitof mentioned in previous posts, double call-in can wreck your T3 or T4 play cuz you have to save up the 260fuel.
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
29 Apr 2014, 11:13 AM
#32
Posts: 1163
Ugbear, you didn't read my post. I explained part of the reason dual 85s come together is how the doctrines are designed.
I.e. One has strong arty call in, the other mark target and guards and both have self repair. These are all viewed as premium abilities.
Meanwhile, the doctrine with single easier called 85 has less overt abilities and is set up more as an mid game doctrine. Lacking some late punch.
I.e. One has strong arty call in, the other mark target and guards and both have self repair. These are all viewed as premium abilities.
Meanwhile, the doctrine with single easier called 85 has less overt abilities and is set up more as an mid game doctrine. Lacking some late punch.
29 Apr 2014, 11:18 AM
#33
Posts: 1163
Like Katitof mentioned in previous posts, double call-in can wreck your T3 or T4 play cuz you have to save up the 260fuel.
Read milkas post, one doctrine supplements T3/4, the other are more of a hang on with t1/2, stay in the game build CP then bam, hit the field hard.
85s are very cheap in this use because you have not shelled out a lot for the tier buildings...
29 Apr 2014, 11:30 AM
#34
Posts: 954
Ugbear, you didn't read my post. I explained part of the reason dual 85s come together is how the doctrines are designed.
I.e. One has strong arty call in, the other mark target and guards and both have self repair. These are all viewed as premium abilities.
Meanwhile, the doctrine with single easier called 85 has less overt abilities and is set up more as an mid game doctrine. Lacking some late punch.
One has guard, cammo, mark target and IL-2 bomb strike doesn't have need to have double ISU-152 call-in, and you've agree that double call-in is a nerf.
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
29 Apr 2014, 11:31 AM
#35
Posts: 807
Single call-in compared to dual call-in would create an advantage for you in comparison to your opponent which will be not due to your skill.
For single call-in you must not preserve so much manpower and fuel and it will make the game for you artificially easier. It's more difficult and it requires more skill to try and resist for the dual call-in.
That's the best and cost efficient call-in in the game that creates a huge advantage to the ones using it and now you want to be available on what? 3-4 doctrines?
If so, why not make available a Panther call-in for a german doctrine? Or any tank with similar price and performance to T34/85?
For single call-in you must not preserve so much manpower and fuel and it will make the game for you artificially easier. It's more difficult and it requires more skill to try and resist for the dual call-in.
That's the best and cost efficient call-in in the game that creates a huge advantage to the ones using it and now you want to be available on what? 3-4 doctrines?
If so, why not make available a Panther call-in for a german doctrine? Or any tank with similar price and performance to T34/85?
29 Apr 2014, 11:55 AM
#36
Posts: 1637
Actually I have the opposite opinion ugbear. And I think this would actually help the game. Make EVERY call in other then heavies a double call in. Or find some other way to make you save up 200 fuel to use them.
That would encourage teching. Rather then gonna spam Pumas huehuehue.
Right now you can punish a player and utlize lighter units IF the other player is saving for a heavy tank call in. So the Ostwind or the T70 can shine.
Single call in units like the Sherman Single T34/85 and Puma kind of wreck this putting us back to pre patch hum drum of not having a place on the field for this units.
That would encourage teching. Rather then gonna spam Pumas huehuehue.
Right now you can punish a player and utlize lighter units IF the other player is saving for a heavy tank call in. So the Ostwind or the T70 can shine.
Single call in units like the Sherman Single T34/85 and Puma kind of wreck this putting us back to pre patch hum drum of not having a place on the field for this units.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
29 Apr 2014, 12:50 PM
#37
Posts: 258
One has guard, cammo, mark target and IL-2 bomb strike doesn't have need to have double ISU-152 call-in, and you've agree that double call-in is a nerf.
How can you compare 85s with isu152, single isu costs 260fu and 700+mp to field, same as 2 t34-85s, and it obligatory to have 1-2 t34/76 before calling the isu because it needs to be protected by other tanks. With 85s, you can easily field 4 in one game, if you lose 4 t34-85s, then l2p. Dayum bruh
29 Apr 2014, 12:52 PM
#38
Posts: 1163
Yeah T70 can be bad ass right now if you have a player only wanting to use PGs into Tigers. The T70 can out run every AT he has and mop his inf up. Very fun. I love punishing people who refuse to teck.
29 Apr 2014, 13:03 PM
#39
Posts: 1637
Yeah T70 can be bad ass right now if you have a player only wanting to use PGs into Tigers. The T70 can out run every AT he has and mop his inf up. Very fun. I love punishing people who refuse to teck.
Ditto. I was so excited this patch to use T3. Then I saw the Puma. WELP guess ill wait for next patch to use T3.......
So back to T4 with call in support, Call in only, Or just T4 depending. All thanks to Single Unit call ins.....
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
29 Apr 2014, 13:04 PM
#40
Posts: 954
How can you compare 85s with isu152, single isu costs 260fu and 700+mp to field, same as 2 t34-85s, and it obligatory to have 1-2 t34/76 before calling the isu because it needs to be protected by other tanks. With 85s, you can easily field 4 in one game, if you lose 4 t34-85s, then l2p. Dayum bruh
what makes you think I lose 4 T-34/85? What makes you assume that? L2P what?
If you think asking a single T-34/85 call in will do more harm than good, that's kinda pathetic IMHO.
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
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