Posts: 747
Despite of your usual batshit, it is quite easy indirect nerfing these two unit.
- remove their scope
- hull down like marder III or it is just a Pak40 on wheels
- still remove their scope and cone sight then they would need spotter to work
- ISU HE shell definitely need to go away
10 
Posts: 871
Some reasonable ideas there.
The main diffrence between the Elefant and the ISU-152 is, that the latter murders infantry and tanks alike while the former murders tanks only.
Posts: 1026
That is true however you cannot ignore the fact that the elephant has less viable counters that can be used against it. Soviets have no hard counter vs it but Germans have a hard counter for the ISU.
10 Posts: 871
I have joked before about removing both vehicles from the game, but the more I think about it the better the idea seems. The game would be more interesting and probably easier to balance without them. At least for German 2v2, the Ele is a 100% necessary call-in to have at your disposal just in case the other player brings the ISU. And as of this patch, we're seeing that in most games.
Posts: 1439
The elephant is the hard counter to ISU, but a game where both feature is not even close to an instant win for Germans since both players will have an army surrounding them. The Elephant's support units are vulnerable to the ISU, while the ISU's support units are not vulnerable to the Elephant. Not that the ISU is a slouch for anti-armor work, even if it loses head to head with the Ele.
I have joked before about removing both vehicles from the game, but the more I think about it the better the idea seems. The game would be more interesting and probably easier to balance without them. At least for German 2v2, the Ele is a 100% necessary call-in to have at your disposal just in case the other player brings the ISU. And as of this patch, we're seeing that in most games.
Posts: 381
I agree. The jagdpanther worked fine as dedicated AT without silly range.
Posts: 783 | Subs: 3
Posts: 1701
I think we all would love it if elephant was replaced by the jagdpanther.
Posts: 1248
..not me, the reign of SU85 spam would begin.
Posts: 381
..not me, the reign of SU85 spam would begin.
Posts: 618
Jagdpanther(from vCOH) could do circles around su85, stop, and line up in rear before su could even get a quarter turn. Jagdpanther would obviously be on par with su as far as range as well. Honestly, if elephant is a problem, then just wait for jagdtiger. 120mm is going to be like 2x isu shot lol. if isu shoots tactical nukes, jagdtiger will launch ballistic missile nukes that destroy the entire screen.i guess they could go with the 88 version, has anyone seen it in any trailers to confirm which model?
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Jagdpanther(from vCOH) could do circles around su85, stop, and line up in rear before su could even get a quarter turn. Jagdpanther would obviously be on par with su as far as range as well. Honestly, if elephant is a problem, then just wait for jagdtiger. 120mm is going to be like 2x isu shot lol. if isu shoots tactical nukes, jagdtiger will launch ballistic missile nukes that destroy the entire screen.i guess they could go with the 88 version, has anyone seen it in any trailers to confirm which model?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
Posts: 3293
Failure is always an option. 
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Posts: 381
I'm really looking forward to see 128mm AP shell do more then 152mm HE shell.
Sadly, jadgtiger will not be better then elephant, because there can't be anything better then 100% penetration and two shooting tanks, unless it will one shoot tanks for 200muni per shot.
Which actually seems very likely because things need to stay balanced yet different and that is the only solution I can see to not make it reskinned elephant.
So take a chill pill, I know you're rock hard on the sole thought of jtiger, but expecting more then elephant is to say it politely, naive.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
did peter not say that no current unit is shooting HE? so the isu must be ap rounds now.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
Posts: 578
Jagdpanther(from vCOH) could do circles around su85, stop, and line up in rear before su could even get a quarter turn. Jagdpanther would obviously be on par with su as far as range as well. Honestly, if elephant is a problem, then just wait for jagdtiger. 120mm is going to be like 2x isu shot lol. if isu shoots tactical nukes, jagdtiger will launch ballistic missile nukes that destroy the entire screen.i guess they could go with the 88 version, has anyone seen it in any trailers to confirm which model?
Posts: 1701
And that is why paks and shrecks exist
Posts: 578
..not me, the reign of SU85 spam would begin.
Posts: 1701
Posts: 618
The Jagdpanther had the same gun like the elephant - the extra Long Pak 43 and the Jagdpanther had also more armour then the SU-85.And it was based on the more modern panther chassis.
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