ISU-152

Wow, German tanks fired 3x faster, the Russians couldn't spot the enemy, had trouble aiming, couldn't engage at long distances, achieved a 1:9 KDR on a regular basis? I can't possibly imagine how the Germans managed to lose the war

They nearly did remember despite the soviets having rather massive advantages . If the Americans didn't help the soviets out with land lease, a western front and the complete destruction of germany's industrial capabilities i dont see how the soviets would have won if the soviets kept fighting that incompetently.

the germans lost beccause of some bad decisions by high command and the fact that they were fighting a multifront war. not because of there miltiary efficency which for the most part was extrememly efficent

as for the soviet weapon sights on soviet gear was poor compared to germans from what I have read and also is why German tanks were capable to engage them at greater distances.

"Don´t worry about the Russians, they will always miss the first shot."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8NklsPWX1A#t=6m50s

"Don´t worry about the Russians, they will always miss the first shot."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8NklsPWX1A#t=6m50s

These graphics are terrible!

The ISU is the most ridiculous unit in this game atm.
You can't do ANYTHING but Elefant.
You've chosen Spearhead Doctrine to get the mortar HT early? Well that's a GG.
You've chosen anything else? GG too.
It is just funny that NOTHING can do ANYTHING against this tank.
PAK? LOL! Oneshot. Next one - Oneshot too. And if one of them manages to give a single shot - It will bounce!

As a Russian you just have to Conspam until you have enough CP for the ISU.
It's like the fucking Exodia from Yugioh!

I know CoH is not about realizm but..
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6HVPrFhwUM4/Uv4xaGs8_wI/AAAAAAAACfU/WaoXWR4ZJ6Q/s1600/isu-cats-1.jpg -> #38
This shows direct hit, from ISU with HE-fragmentation shell, on Panther
_____________
The solution could be some ability that switch between HE and AP shell.

Nice pic i also have a nice pic about what was left from an ISU-152 after he meet some german tanks on the battlefield:
Destroyed ISU-152 after a fight with german tanks:


By the way blowing enemies turret off was nothing Special in WW2.ISU-152 werent the only vehicle that could blew a turret from a tank:
KV-2 wreck:

T-34 wreck:

IS-2 wreck:

IS-2 after a fight with german tanks:

15 IS-2's knocked out frontally from a distance of 1,500m by Tiger Ausf.E's from the GrossDeutchland Division in August 1944:



Soviet tanks didn t look much better when they got destroyed.The photo about the destroyed panther is nothing Special compared to other photos.

They nearly did remember despite the soviets having rather massive advantages . If the Americans didn't help the soviets out with land lease, a western front and the complete destruction of germany's industrial capabilities i dont see how the soviets would have won if the soviets kept fighting that incompetently.

Nothing more to say, gg wp.

Also good pics, cant compare the destroyed panther with those russian ones...

This post is completely wrong. You should have said: 'If the Soviets were always the same as they were in 1941, they would have lost the war'

They nearly did remember despite the soviets having rather massive advantages . If the Americans didn't help the soviets out with land lease, a western front and the complete destruction of germany's industrial capabilities i dont see how the soviets would have won if the soviets kept fighting that incompetently.

The Soviets were 'incompetent' in 1941 and up to the fall of 1942. The Germans and their allies attacked while the Soviets were reorganizing their entire armed force- they were 20 months into a 32 month program. The Soviet mechanized forces were destroyed in the first two months due mostly to the fact that they were only half formed. Afterward, the Soviets suffered from a cascade of misfortune and having to send hundreds of marginally trained reservist divisions to the front- outmatched by German formations due to lack of time.

They improved continuously though- something that the Germans did not achieve themselves. The German high point was 1941 (3 army group offensive) and they became weaker by (2 Army group offensive) Typhoon 1941 and (1 Army Group offensive) Blau 1942. Kursk was smaller than Blau 1942 and defeated by the Soviets in little over a week. The German twin pincers did not even get anywhere close to kursk.

Soviets were on par with the Germans during the winter of 1943. The Victory at Stalingrad destroyed all hopes of German strategic victory.

They surpassed the Germans and Axis allies in the summer of 1943. From the Summer of 1943 onward, Germans would no longer be capable of penetrating Soviet defenses at the operational level/operational rear. Soviet defense strategy had improved dramatically.

Lend Lease only started appearing in significant numbers AFTER they won Stalingrad.

By 1944 and 1945, Soviet operational art had matured and surpassed that of the German although they were still let down at the tactical level.


The Soviet's greatest operation would probably be Operation August Storm in Manchuria in 1945. The Soviets peaked in 1945 and the Germans peaked in 1941!

Wow, German tanks fired 3x faster, the Russians couldn't spot the enemy, had trouble aiming, couldn't engage at long distances, achieved a 1:9 KDR on a regular basis? I can't possibly imagine how the Germans managed to lose the war

Stalin was using Soviet Industry pre nerf with open beta 75fu T34s.

Nice pic i also have a nice pic about what was left from an ISU-152 after he meet some german tanks on the battlefield:
Destroyed ISU-152 after a fight with german tanks:


By the way blowing enemies turret off was nothing Special in WW2.ISU-152 werent the only vehicle that could blew a turret from a tank:
KV-2 wreck:

T-34 wreck:

IS-2 wreck:

IS-2 after a fight with german tanks:

15 IS-2's knocked out frontally from a distance of 1,500m by Tiger Ausf.E's from the GrossDeutchland Division in August 1944:



Soviet tanks didn t look much better when they got destroyed.The photo about the destroyed panther is nothing Special compared to other photos.

It would be helpful if you develop thought "german tanks". What tanks? King's Tiger or let's say Pz 3?
What's more, these pics show us only destroyed tanks with turret down. Where is direct hit?
Well, here it is on Panther:
PS
We are talking about HE shell power not AP, so bringing on german tanks using AP shells is pointless.


But if you are talking about AP shells, let's see a hole on King's Tiger turret (shell went through turret so I guess it was penetration about hmmm over 140mm



Yet still CoH is not abiut realizm so dont waste time to say it. This is simple conversation about its power

Yet still CoH is not abiut realizm so dont waste time to say it. This is simple conversation about its power

It seems like its power didnt change the extremely high tank losses of the soviet Union:
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/wwii/production.asp
"Tank losses":


year:... lost german tanks:.........lost soviet tanks:
1941.....2,758...........................20,500
1942.....2,648...........................15,000
1943.....6,362...........................22,400
1944.....6,434...........................16,900
1945.....7,382...........................8,700
Total german tank losses on the eastern front:.....25584
Total soviet tank losses on the eastern front:.....83500

This thread is so cluttered it might as well be closed already

Tank losses include paper lights like BT-2 and BT-7 that were quite common, especially early war.

BT-2 is a tank and IS-2 is a tank. They go to the same bag.

A number of lost tanks is not argument. Why? Germany had better crew, better tactics, better use of tanks. Soviets? They have plenty of vehicles and they not concerned with lossess plus worst crew and simple spamming.
Just check how many Pz 4 were produced and how many t34 (9k vs 57k)

Yes, close this threat please.
We all agreed that ISU152 is to devastating on close to medium ranges.

Most Soviet tank losses in 1941-1942 were due to ABANDONMENT! not enemy action. The Soviet mechanized forces were overwhelmed in one- two months.

MOST soviet tanks were light tanks in 1941. BT-5, BT-7, T-26. There were few KV and T-34 tanks.

Many of these tanks were just lying there in storage, unused while the Germans advanced past them. This is how they lost 20,000 in a few months.

The Germans used a lot less light tanks than the Soviets. Vice versa, the Soviets used a lot less armored halftracks than the Germans.

Soviet offensive strategy was very effective in 1943-1945 but required a high expenditure of tanks.

Read 'Glantz, Stumbling Colossus'.

This post is completely wrong. You should have said: 'If the Soviets were always the same as they were in 1941, they would have lost the war'



The Soviets were 'incompetent' in 1941 and up to the fall of 1942. The Germans and their allies attacked while the Soviets were reorganizing their entire armed force- they were 20 months into a 32 month program. The Soviet mechanized forces were destroyed in the first two months due mostly to the fact that they were only half formed. Afterward, the Soviets suffered from a cascade of misfortune and having to send hundreds of marginally trained reservist divisions to the front- outmatched by German formations due to lack of time.

They improved continuously though- something that the Germans did not achieve themselves. The German high point was 1941 (3 army group offensive) and they became weaker by (2 Army group offensive) Typhoon 1941 and (1 Army Group offensive) Blau 1942. Kursk was smaller than Blau 1942 and defeated by the Soviets in little over a week. The German twin pincers did not even get anywhere close to kursk.

Soviets were on par with the Germans during the winter of 1943. The Victory at Stalingrad destroyed all hopes of German strategic victory.

They surpassed the Germans and Axis allies in the summer of 1943. From the Summer of 1943 onward, Germans would no longer be capable of penetrating Soviet defenses at the operational level/operational rear. Soviet defense strategy had improved dramatically.

Lend Lease only started appearing in significant numbers AFTER they won Stalingrad.

By 1944 and 1945, Soviet operational art had matured and surpassed that of the German although they were still let down at the tactical level.


The Soviet's greatest operation would probably be Operation August Storm in Manchuria in 1945. The Soviets peaked in 1945 and the Germans peaked in 1941!

I didn't say they didn't improve . But friend of my that is in the military once said this: do not fight like the soviets do. You never going to have the same amount of advantages they had. Land lease gave the soviets another 10 k vehicles in 1941 alone.

I can't possibly imagine how the Germans managed to lose the war

probably they didnot stomp the brits first before attacking the Soviets

Most Soviet tank losses in 1941-1942 were due to ABANDONMENT! not enemy action. The Soviet mechanized forces were overwhelmed in one- two months.

MOST soviet tanks were light tanks in 1941. BT-5, BT-7, T-26. There were few KV and T-34 tanks.

Many of these tanks were just lying there in storage, unused while the Germans advanced past them. This is how they lost 20,000 in a few months.

The Germans used a lot less light tanks than the Soviets. Vice versa, the Soviets used a lot less armored halftracks than the Germans.

Soviet offensive strategy was very effective in 1943-1945 but required a high expenditure of tanks.

Read 'Glantz, Stumbling Colossus'.

the soviets had about 2800 t-34's and 800 kv1 tanks. 2200 t-34's where lost with 1600 because of enemy actions. half of the 1600 kills are credited to the p3 with a long barrel 50 mm cannon. but such tanks could only penetrate from point blank range or the sides. it says something about soviet tank design if the p3 crews managed to flank the t-34 repeatedly and destroy it.

"Don´t worry about the Russians, they will always miss the first shot."

I've read the same quote from Soviet tankists as well...

Yay! Glantz reader discovered! Probably one of the few authors able to give an accurate opinion of the Red Army's capabilities. (i.e. by 1944-1945, operationally superb)\

FWIW, 50% of Soviet tanks were repaired and sent back into action, by 1944-45, even 1943, that would have been impossible for the Germans.

Also, the allied Bombing campaign doesn't really get into step until 1944, by which time the Soviets had won. And even then, German production rose rather than dropped.