ISU-152

I'm pretty confident it will get nerfed at any rate. I'd be happy to see an entire update dedicated to reducing one-shot wipe potential across both factions, to be perfectly honest.

This, very much so.

ISU-152 is a super late uber unit that comes at 12 or 11 CP mark (don't remember exact number). It can be easily dealt with by using standard German units you can get from standard buildings.
2 PzIVs is enough to deal with it but if you add another one it makes thing even better. If you went T4 you have Panthers at your disposal. Single Panther is a threat now especially after recent patch since this tank is more lethal than ever.
When you consider doctrinal call ins Tiger will make short work of any ISU-152 in no time and is almost equally effective against infantry now.
Elephant is a hard counter to it. You can kill ISU-152 without getting the Elephant in any kind of danger.
Any indirect fire is a counter to ISU-152 as well.
Pak43 will kill it provided it got line of sight.


It's much easier for a German player to counter ISU-152 than it is for a Soviet player to deal with Elephant. If I am not mistaken general opinion of German players is that Elephant is absolutely balanced. Isn't calling ISU-152 OP in that regards a bit of double standards?

You still forget one thing! If we chose ISU we are left with SU85 and T34/76 so we have no backup, no line breaker.
If you choose elephnat you still can bring Panther.
That is why ISU has to be beast - no other late game unit.

OZ, perhaps in a vacuum on a wide open map without any infantry or Soviet AT support, 2 panzer IVs could take an ISU. Perhaps. But in a vacuum on a wide open map without any infantry or German AT support, the Elefant is useless. A single Zis can take it out.

The problem here is not that one single unit can take on the whole opposing army (which, yes, was a real problem with the initial Tiger Ace). The problem is that as long as the Soviet player has even a tiny bit of support, he can hang back and obliterate the German army--both armor and infantry--from practically right outside his base.

I'm sympathetic to the "best way to fight it is not to allow your opponent to get it" but let's be honest, how hard is it to get 260 fuel by the late game?

Australian Magic there are plenty of "line breaker" Soviet units (SU-76, IS-2, howitzer, skillplanez) and I am starting to get really tired of your vapid responses.

Can't we just enjoy the game... Three Pumas and a Command Tank also may ruin ones day... even without the Command Tank... and the Elephant and the Tiger in a group of two too... . O I forget two Pumas and a Tiger are quite a wild bunch...

OZ, perhaps in a vacuum on a wide open map without any infantry or Soviet AT support, 2 panzer IVs could take an ISU. Perhaps. But in a vacuum on a wide open map without any infantry or German AT support, the Elefant is useless. A single Zis can take it out.

The problem here is not that one single unit can take on the whole opposing army (which, yes, was a real problem with the initial Tiger Ace). The problem is that as long as the Soviet player has even a tiny bit of support, he can hang back and obliterate the German army--both armor and infantry--from practically right outside his base.

I'm sympathetic to the "best way to fight it is not to allow your opponent to get it" but let's be honest, how hard is it to get 260 fuel by the late game?

Australian Magic there are plenty of "line breaker" Soviet units (SU-76, IS-2, howitzer, skillplanez) and I am starting to get really tired of your vapid responses.

Sorry but that's just not true. It is equally easy to flank Elephant as it is to flank ISU-152 on an open map. It all depends of the skill level you play on. I would never risk using ISU-152 or Elephant on maps like Moscow Outskirts or Steps. On my level of play it's impossible for me to cover all approach and secure flanks. Both ISU and Elephant are assault guns not tanks. If anything get behind them then I am screwed big time. Upon successful flank my opponent will advance his army up front as well forcing me to react and deal with a threat from multiple angles. Now ISU-152 can fire a single round on a single tank in its narrow cone of fire and than reloads for up to 11 seconds. It can't one shoot any German medium vehicles. After this initial shoot your tank should be already on ISU side absolutely free of danger. At the same time your army attacking at front forces his support to concentrate and react to danger. If he reposition to deal with your flank your advancing army will have the opportunity to deal some damage. If he doesn't then your flank will have some fun time.
Elephant is different because with scopes it can sit way behind your lines and shoot from a far. Soviet player will have to deal with your army first to be able to get to your Elephant.
New Panther is so crazy fast now it can get behind ISU-152 without any troubles.
I dealt with multiple ISUs while playing Germans and it's not true it couldn't kill infantry before. It was always 2 shoot squad die with this vehicle but 2 shoots that's 22 seconds (its rate of fire is around 2.8 per minute) and when it's shooting infantry it doesn't shoot your tanks.

You can kill elephant with 1zis gun but you cant kill an isu152 with 2 pak

You can kill elephant with 1zis gun but you cant kill an isu152 with 2 pak

This.

This. AI performance needs to be mediocre at best on the ISU. Instagibbing from 100 range does not belong in this game.

I don't get your point.
Are you complaining about 100 range? Or you're complaining about a squad at HALF of its health getting killed by a single shot of 152mm gun?
I bet even a mortar could do the same. Or not? Brummbar would. For sure.

You can kill elephant with 1zis gun but you cant kill an isu152 with 2 pak

You can kill SU85 with 1pak but you cant kill a Brummbar with 2zis

Even Hans said that the ISU-152 is OP after cruzz one-shotted half of his army. It must see some changes.

You can kill SU85 with 1pak but you cant kill a Brummbar with 2zis

You absolutely can kill a Brummbar with 2 zis as long as they are not directly next to each other. And the Brummbar cannot kill the pak from beyond the pak's functional range, especially if it has even a single con squad in support.

Are you complaining about 100 range? Or you're complaining about a squad at HALF of its health getting killed by a single shot of 152mm gun?

Uhhh the problem isn't the 2-man squad, it's the 4-man squad at 90% health.

Assault grenadiers were not stoppable? It sounds you have s*** in your head, lol.

lol he got you there doc.

can we just get rid of these uber range mobile units?

You can kill elephant with 1zis gun but you cant kill an isu152 with 2 pak

Even if that's true. It proves nothing.

Also I played some team games as German... My God how bad majority of the players are. Not even micro, macro wise. They even don't know how to co operate and support each other. Play some 1v1, 2v2 first, get some skill and then come back and complain about balance.

I wonder what if it just had its insane anti infantry , good anti tank, but only had the range a su-85.

I wonder what if it just had its insane anti infantry , good anti tank, but only had the range a su-85.

Then it would 'get dead' in very short order, since a Panther, PaK(s), Elefants, and PaK 43s would just rip it apart at that reduced range, considering its infuriatingly bad mobility.

I wonder what if it just had its insane anti infantry , good anti tank, but only had the range a su-85.

Then it would be too easy to flank it. It need it´s range. I don´t even mind it´s shots power. What I find disturbing though is that the unit with the biggest damage output in the game and ability to wipe whole units is allowed to fire every 10 seconds. Increase it´s reload time.

After having fired that one devastating shot the ISU-152 should be out of combat for a while - reloading. This way a unit moving towards it (through it´s 100 range) doesn´t need to fear to be also wiped immediately.

You absolutely can kill a Brummbar with 2 zis as long as they are not directly next to each other. And the Brummbar cannot kill the pak from beyond the pak's functional range, especially if it has even a single con squad in support.

And you absolutely can kill an ISU with 2 paks if you'll make use of the terrain.
Maybe people here should stop looking at things from a unit vs unit vaccum perspective, huh?

Australian Magic there are plenty of "line breaker" Soviet units (SU-76, IS-2, howitzer, skillplanez) and I am starting to get really tired of your vapid responses.

Since when IS2 or howitzer come in the same commander as Isu? Im talking about non doctrinal units. You choose elephant, panter is still there. We choose isu and is2, t34/85 and kvs are gone. Su76 sounds like a joke when compared to brrumbar and panther