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russian armor

Should the T-34/85 be available without a doctrine?

17 Apr 2014, 16:53 PM
#21
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

I dont play 1v1, just to make it clear.
Normally when I have the elefant rammed, I try to reverse it to safe spot and repair it ofc, but then, I've lost so much terrain... or the russians make some kind of IL-2 or the Howitzer , or the Kats dont let you repair it.. in other words, if the heavy gets rammed and it penetrates, its USUALLY(not always) gg.
17 Apr 2014, 16:59 PM
#22
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

I dont play 1v1, just to make it clear.
Normally when I have the elefant rammed, I try to reverse it to safe spot and repair it ofc, but then, I've lost so much terrain... or the russians make some kind of IL-2 or the Howitzer , or the Kats dont let you repair it.. in other words, if the heavy gets rammed and it penetrates, its USUALLY(not always) gg.


Yes, this is exactly how to beat elephants in team games. One ram + constant artillery pressure (does not have to be heavy). Extremely boring to play against and to attempt to do.

Also in team games its a good idea to have someone get a bunch of bulletins for the T34 so you can up its speed and penetration chance.
17 Apr 2014, 17:18 PM
#23
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

Yes for making it either t3 or t4. No for making it a munitions upgrade.
T-34/76 and t-34/85 are two diferent tanks.
If you can convert one into another then i also want to be able to convert my tigers into panthers, and my stugs into elephants.
17 Apr 2014, 17:27 PM
#24
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2014, 17:18 PMBurts
T-34/76 and t-34/85 are two diferent tanks.
If you can convert one into another then i also want to be able to convert my tigers into panthers, and my stugs into elephants.


17 Apr 2014, 17:29 PM
#25
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760




Actually the t34/85 and t34/76 were 2 different tanks the 85 had a larger turret ring to fit the bigger turret.
17 Apr 2014, 17:30 PM
#26
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871


Actually the t34/85 and t34/76 were 2 different tanks the 85 had a larger turret ring to fit the bigger turret.


I know that, but you cannot compare it to converting a Tiger into a panther because they are completely different or a stug into an elephant.

Stug is based on a Panzer III, Elephant based on a Tiger prototype.

Within the limits of the game upgrading a T-34/76 into an 85 isn't that far fetched. Upgrading a Stug into an Elephant makes 0 sense. It would be closer to upgrade a Tiger (all be it the wrong version) into an Elephant.
17 Apr 2014, 17:31 PM
#27
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701





xDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
17 Apr 2014, 17:36 PM
#28
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

Back on topic I don't see this happening ever, relic is pretty stubborn on not implementing drastic changes like this. At the very least relic should change the double call-in on the t34/85 to a single call in like on the advance warfare tactics commander and adjust the price accordenly and maybe push it back 1 cp to compensate it to allow the Germans to prepare for a potential t34/85 - su85 combo.
17 Apr 2014, 17:38 PM
#29
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

Back on topic I don't see this happening ever, relic is pretty stubborn on not implementing drastic changed like this. At the very least relic should change the double call-in on the t34/85 to a single call in like on the advance warfare tactics commander and adjust the price accordenly and maybe push it back 1 cp to compensate it to allow the Germans to prepare for a potential t34/85 - su85 combo.


When AW first came out I think it worked really well, single T34 and being able to get T4 / SU-85. They work well together and help a great deal vs Axis armour.

What about it still being part of a commander, but it replaces T-34/76 with a T-34/85 in the T3 building, but adjust costs to compensate?

Edit: Actually wasn't in that way in the Beta.
17 Apr 2014, 17:40 PM
#30
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760



When AW first came out I think it worked really well, single T34 and being able to get T4 / SU-85. They work well together and help a great deal vs Axis armour.

What about it still being part of a commander, but it replaces T-34/76 with a T-34/85 in the T3 building, but adjust costs to compensate?


I assure you I agree it should be with a building, but with relics current track record it might not happen, I just propose another option in case it will not. Also a change to the t34/85 will hopefully breath new like to the German t4 which is really good, but unfortunatly not very practical in 1v1.
17 Apr 2014, 17:57 PM
#31
avatar of FriedRise

Posts: 132

Yeah Relic will probably not make that drastic a change. But if we're talking them as doctrinal tanks, I think 9CP for the T34/85 is a little late. They aren't really late game tanks and fit more around mid game as a way to counter P4s. You'll need two or more to be able to counter anything heavier.

I know Relic wants call-in tanks to supplement your core army, but aside from the german command tank (which is available at 8CP), every other call-in tank is heavy. The T34/85 is a medium tank that will lose to most things when it becomes available.
18 Apr 2014, 06:01 AM
#32
avatar of MarcoRossolini

Posts: 1042

Ram needs to go, at the very least so we don't have everyone complaining about their shiny uncounterable elefant being countered...
18 Apr 2014, 07:20 AM
#33
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

the t-34/85 should of been in T3.
T-34/76 should of been the doctrinal tank.
Either that or t-34/85 should replace the t-34/76 in the T3 building.

I honestly don't understand this game...
44 ostwinds were built, yet they are non doctrinal, a few hundred brummbaars were built.
22000 t-34/85s were built during the war.
Yet they are doctrinal and are available only in 3 doctrines.

1300 tigers were built , yet they are present in nearly 1/2 of all german doctrines.


raw
18 Apr 2014, 07:31 AM
#34
avatar of raw

Posts: 644

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2014, 07:20 AMBurts
the t-34/85 should of been in T3.
T-34/76 should of been the doctrinal tank.
Either that or t-34/85 should replace the t-34/76 in the T3 building.

I honestly don't understand this game...
44 ostwinds were built, yet they are non doctrinal, a few hundred brummbaars were built.
22000 t-34/85s were built during the war.
Yet they are doctrinal and are available only in 3 doctrines.

1300 tigers were built , yet they are present in nearly 1/2 of all german doctrines.




Relic is trying a comedy approach to WW2, please bear with them while they're hard at work to make you actually laugh about the punch lines.
18 Apr 2014, 10:01 AM
#35
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

Ram needs to go, at the very least so we don't have everyone complaining about their shiny uncounterable elefant being countered...


Because clicking a button and praying to RNG God is a proper counter, ofc.
18 Apr 2014, 10:34 AM
#36
avatar of y3ivan

Posts: 157

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2014, 07:20 AMBurts
the t-34/85 should of been in T3.
T-34/76 should of been the doctrinal tank.
Either that or t-34/85 should replace the t-34/76 in the T3 building.

I honestly don't understand this game...
44 ostwinds were built, yet they are non doctrinal, a few hundred brummbaars were built.
22000 t-34/85s were built during the war.
Yet they are doctrinal and are available only in 3 doctrines.

1300 tigers were built , yet they are present in nearly 1/2 of all german doctrines.



(1)
T34/76 was the main battle tank for the red army during late 1943. T34/85 was only given to Guards Elite battalion and later stages of the war it was a standard issue to newly form battalion or replacement battalions.Even till the end of the war, T34/76 was still largely in the red army armor formation.

In parts of historical accuracy, Relic got that one right but for the soviet tank vs german tank ratio, they got it wrong.

(2)
I do agree ostwinds should not be non-doctrinal vehicle. Either replace it with wirbelwind or just give germans to build static 3.7cm flakgun like vCOH.
18 Apr 2014, 11:17 AM
#37
avatar of MarcoRossolini

Posts: 1042



Because clicking a button and praying to RNG God is a proper counter, ofc.


I derped out on my response.

Ram is rubbish. Plain and simple. Get rid of it. My point also was that I'm sick of ram being held up as an example of how Soviets have it easy.
18 Apr 2014, 11:20 AM
#38
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Apr 2014, 10:34 AMy3ivan

(1)
T34/76 was the main battle tank for the red army during late 1943. T34/85 was only given to Guards Elite battalion and later stages of the war it was a standard issue to newly form battalion or replacement battalions.Even till the end of the war, T34/76 was still largely in the red army armor formation.

In parts of historical accuracy, Relic got that one right but for the soviet tank vs german tank ratio, they got it wrong.

(2)
I do agree ostwinds should not be non-doctrinal vehicle. Either replace it with wirbelwind or just give germans to build static 3.7cm flakgun like vCOH.



Yes, i do know that t-34/76 was still used extensively until the end of the war and that the t-34/85 did not completely replace it.
However, unlike the t-34/85 (which actually feels like a tank in game), the t-34/76 doesn't even feel like a tank in game. It can't do reliable damage againt's anything. It can barely dent tanks,and its "decent againts infantry". I don't like that. the t-34 is used as a battering ram. I hate that.
That said, i heard the t-34/76 is getting a considerable buff but also a cost increase next patch, which sounds very good indeed.
18 Apr 2014, 11:27 AM
#39
avatar of MarcoRossolini

Posts: 1042

T-34-85s were most heavily in tank units by the end of the war. Although there were 76s in use, primarily they were 85s...
18 Apr 2014, 11:31 AM
#40
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

Im so sick of these stupid History discussions. We should discuss how such a change would affect the balance and not how said unit was used in the real war.

"Mimimimimimi, why is Ostwind with 88 vehicles built non - doctrinal??"

FFS people, this is supposed to be an atleast semi - competetive RTS set in WW2, not an accurate history simulation.

If you want to talk about history, make a whole forum section about it.
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