I am just asking because i hear this all the time but what i really see since the Patch is:
Germans: Pio spam to SC or Gren spam to SC. 90% of the time
Soviets: Penal spam and sniper spam (T1) and maxim spam. 90% of the time
Is this more tactical depth? In my eyes it is not.
Before the patch you could not tell what would be the BO of the factions.
Caution: I am not saying that the patch was bad. i am only saying that there is something (Balance and someting else) really wrong with the implementation or something.
Patch added so much tactical depth... really? Not ironic
7 Apr 2014, 13:36 PM
#1
Posts: 1355
7 Apr 2014, 13:48 PM
#2
Posts: 1637
BO is strategy. Micro and positioning is tactical. They screwed the strategic depth to improve the tactical depth.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
7 Apr 2014, 14:06 PM
#3
Posts: 247
It obviously added a lot of tactical depth. The problem, in my oppinion, is that the game was designed for the simplified firefights where cower didnt really matter all that much. Kind of makes one wonder why they didnt simply expand on the formula of the original, rather than trying to reinvent the infantry combat and poorly so.
7 Apr 2014, 14:12 PM
#4
Posts: 3293
BO is strategy. Micro and positioning is tactical. They screwed the strategic depth to improve the tactical depth.
i think this result is because the balance is off not so much that the patch intentionally lowered depth
.
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7 Apr 2014, 14:20 PM
#5
Posts: 1637
i think this result is because the balance is off not so much that the patch intentionally lowered depth
Yep. Just making the distinction.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
7 Apr 2014, 15:02 PM
#6
Posts: 879
It's funny how the more they try to make the game interesting, the more they turn it into a noob RTS. You can't fight the underlying resource and popcap system.
As a former player (Dave I think) said once: COH2 - for noobs, by noobs.
As a former player (Dave I think) said once: COH2 - for noobs, by noobs.
7 Apr 2014, 15:20 PM
#7
Posts: 43
Prior to the patch, I think the BO and tactics were more stale especially with the Soviets. Most were just Conscript starts. Since the patch, I've seen a lot more variety with them. These include T1 and T2 starts along with a sprinkling of Cons.
I also see some variety in German starts but not as much, people tend to play it safer here although I have seen the German snipers more often. Considering we are getting Pio starts, AG starts, and Gren starts, isn't that varied? There really aren't many other options a Deutsch player has, no? We don't *want* HMG starts right? Plus regardless if the aforementioned starts, I see at least one HMG used and sometimes Mortars. Again isn't this varied?
My observations are for 1v1 and 2v2 and based not just on my experiences but in watching mTw streams, Dane, jesulin, Sage, JaminROCK, etc.
There is no question in my mind the game is more tactical now. People who don't use them get punished, as they should.
Still room for improvement but this patch seemed a big step forward. In addition all recent interviews with Relic have them stating the game will continue to be heavily supported, both Eastern Front and Western Armies. Their support to date is superior to their effort in vCoH.
I also see some variety in German starts but not as much, people tend to play it safer here although I have seen the German snipers more often. Considering we are getting Pio starts, AG starts, and Gren starts, isn't that varied? There really aren't many other options a Deutsch player has, no? We don't *want* HMG starts right? Plus regardless if the aforementioned starts, I see at least one HMG used and sometimes Mortars. Again isn't this varied?
My observations are for 1v1 and 2v2 and based not just on my experiences but in watching mTw streams, Dane, jesulin, Sage, JaminROCK, etc.
There is no question in my mind the game is more tactical now. People who don't use them get punished, as they should.
Still room for improvement but this patch seemed a big step forward. In addition all recent interviews with Relic have them stating the game will continue to be heavily supported, both Eastern Front and Western Armies. Their support to date is superior to their effort in vCoH.
7 Apr 2014, 15:22 PM
#8
Posts: 2779
The capping and resource system wouldn't change back to vCOH style IMO, but I think the popcap should varies to the number of strat point the player hold, making it less possible that one player dominating map control but got owned by a super call in armour, that's totally bullshit, I would say.
7 Apr 2014, 19:07 PM
#9
Posts: 627
The biggest problem with this game is and always has been that they scrapped the Doctrine system in favour of Commanders.
The changes with the popcap have pros and cons. It means the winning player can't ball out of control and that the losing player can comeback. Depending on your views, that can be bad and good.
I think the latest patch has been a huge improvement to the game as a whole, regardless of all the complaining. Relic games have always been about tactical depth and this patch helped a lot of with that. It's no longer a "I MUST GET AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO THE ENEMY!" fest, positioning and being ready for your opponents in advance is a much more important thing now and certain builds are more viable because of it.
The problem with Relic is, as per usual, that they fucked with too many things at the same time. No such thing as baby steps to them, didn't even come into their heads that they shouldn't screw with the balance at the same time they're screwing with the mechanics.
The changes with the popcap have pros and cons. It means the winning player can't ball out of control and that the losing player can comeback. Depending on your views, that can be bad and good.
I think the latest patch has been a huge improvement to the game as a whole, regardless of all the complaining. Relic games have always been about tactical depth and this patch helped a lot of with that. It's no longer a "I MUST GET AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO THE ENEMY!" fest, positioning and being ready for your opponents in advance is a much more important thing now and certain builds are more viable because of it.
The problem with Relic is, as per usual, that they fucked with too many things at the same time. No such thing as baby steps to them, didn't even come into their heads that they shouldn't screw with the balance at the same time they're screwing with the mechanics.
8 Apr 2014, 04:47 AM
#10
Posts: 219
You can't fight the underlying resource and popcap system.
I keep on thinking about that, too. There are times where you basically have the upperhand, but do not have the force to rush his base. All he does is wait and call in some more units, there is no real punishment. Comebacks are nothing special anymore... the resource and popcap system make it fairly easy. I think losing mapcontrol and units should be punished more.
8 Apr 2014, 07:48 AM
#11
Posts: 4928
It's no longer a "I MUST GET AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO THE ENEMY!" fest
Unless you're Russian, then you must get as close as possible or you won't do a lick of damage. And even then, it's no guarantee of success.
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> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
8 Apr 2014, 08:45 AM
#12
1 
Posts: 641 | Subs: 1
I keep on thinking about that, too. There are times where you basically have the upperhand, but do not have the force to rush his base. All he does is wait and call in some more units, there is no real punishment. Comebacks are nothing special anymore... the resource and popcap system make it fairly easy. I think losing mapcontrol and units should be punished more.
ketetof shudnt b allaud tew tawlk abowt balence hee s biasd
8 Apr 2014, 09:08 AM
#13
Posts: 829
Nope, but its mostly due to the balance being bit off and only few tactics being viable in early game.
Then you got late game (armor and call-inns) These babies still throw away tactics out the window because they are simply on the field. A tactic enough on its own.
But the game has potential to be very satisfying, both tactically and strategically. That is if Relic does same thing to armor and call-inn units/abilities as they did to infantry with last patch. And reworks a bit importance of map control
Then you got late game (armor and call-inns) These babies still throw away tactics out the window because they are simply on the field. A tactic enough on its own.
But the game has potential to be very satisfying, both tactically and strategically. That is if Relic does same thing to armor and call-inn units/abilities as they did to infantry with last patch. And reworks a bit importance of map control
8 Apr 2014, 09:12 AM
#14
Posts: 309
I keep on thinking about that, too. There are times where you basically have the upperhand, but do not have the force to rush his base. All he does is wait and call in some more units, there is no real punishment. Comebacks are nothing special anymore... the resource and popcap system make it fairly easy. I think losing mapcontrol and units should be punished more.
Idk about this. Snowballs aren't fun at all. On both sides.
8 Apr 2014, 09:48 AM
#15
Posts: 640
The capping and resource system wouldn't change back to vCOH style IMO, but I think the popcap should varies to the number of strat point the player hold, making it less possible that one player dominating map control but got owned by a super call in armour, that's totally bullshit, I would say.
Very good point imo.
8 Apr 2014, 09:48 AM
#16
Posts: 476
Prior to the patch, I think the BO and tactics were more stale especially with the Soviets. Most were just Conscript starts. Since the patch, I've seen a lot more variety with them. These include T1 and T2 starts along with a sprinkling of Cons.
I also see some variety in German starts but not as much, people tend to play it safer here although I have seen the German snipers more often. Considering we are getting Pio starts, AG starts, and Gren starts, isn't that varied? There really aren't many other options a Deutsch player has, no? We don't *want* HMG starts right? Plus regardless if the aforementioned starts, I see at least one HMG used and sometimes Mortars. Again isn't this varied?
My observations are for 1v1 and 2v2 and based not just on my experiences but in watching mTw streams, Dane, jesulin, Sage, JaminROCK, etc.
There is no question in my mind the game is more tactical now. People who don't use them get punished, as they should.
Still room for improvement but this patch seemed a big step forward. In addition all recent interviews with Relic have them stating the game will continue to be heavily supported, both Eastern Front and Western Armies. Their support to date is superior to their effort in vCoH.
+1
I play mostly 1v1 and my post are with 1v1 in mind.
18 Apr 2014, 23:20 PM
#17
Posts: 419
I am just asking because i hear this all the time but what i really see since the Patch is:Rushing to scout car now is almost necessary considering how much damage m3s can do in the hands of a skilled user. At the start of every game I have flashbacks of the times I got buttraped by m3 hordes, and took a blood oath to never be unprepared again.
Germans: Pio spam to SC or Gren spam to SC. 90% of the time
Soviets: Penal spam and sniper spam (T1) and maxim spam. 90% of the time
Is this more tactical depth? In my eyes it is not.
Before the patch you could not tell what would be the BO of the factions.
Caution: I am not saying that the patch was bad. i am only saying that there is something (Balance and someting else) really wrong with the implementation or something.
18 Apr 2014, 23:27 PM
#18
Posts: 471
Prior to the patch, I think the BO and tactics were more stale especially with the Soviets. Most were just Conscript starts. Since the patch, I've seen a lot more variety with them. These include T1 and T2 starts along with a sprinkling of Cons.
I also see some variety in German starts but not as much, people tend to play it safer here although I have seen the German snipers more often.
People use BOs that work.
The reason you see Soviet "variety" is that Soviets are struggling to counter OP German units.
The reason you see less German variety is that Germans have BOs that deliver easy wins.
Simple as that in my book.
Having said that, the general direction of the patch is good - they just need to get the balance right now.
19 Apr 2014, 00:48 AM
#19
1 Posts: 927
fools like you ar amusing
the game was a trainwreck before the patch, you just didnt realise it. That mass A-move infantry doesnt work anymore because they actually fixed the game automaticly buffs weapon team spam, sniper spam, or other abuse-focused stats because playing normal requires more skill now.
Now that infantry combat has the basic proper rules in place they can actually start balancing the game instead of bandaiding.
the game was a trainwreck before the patch, you just didnt realise it. That mass A-move infantry doesnt work anymore because they actually fixed the game automaticly buffs weapon team spam, sniper spam, or other abuse-focused stats because playing normal requires more skill now.
Now that infantry combat has the basic proper rules in place they can actually start balancing the game instead of bandaiding.
19 Apr 2014, 01:39 AM
#20
Posts: 976
Coh2 is finally becoming a great game. Relic has made great progress making the game more deep and interesting. The game is very easy to play but very hard to master. So hard to master that some people cannot see all the subtleties... Some balance issues still need to be patch, yes, but they are close to the goal.
So instead of complaining that the game is too easy or too something. I say, just take the time to adapt to the changes they made and consider it a whole new game. You just have go play vcoh to understand that coh2 is becoming finaly the best game of the family.
For a long time,i had harsh words for Coh2, but the devs did theirs jobs. Now instead of rubbish we have a gem in our hands.
Thank you Relic.
Now my friends and i have return to the auto-match. See you on the field.
So instead of complaining that the game is too easy or too something. I say, just take the time to adapt to the changes they made and consider it a whole new game. You just have go play vcoh to understand that coh2 is becoming finaly the best game of the family.
For a long time,i had harsh words for Coh2, but the devs did theirs jobs. Now instead of rubbish we have a gem in our hands.
Thank you Relic.
Now my friends and i have return to the auto-match. See you on the field.
VoltarDark
Long live to COH3, the new king of all team RTS !
Long live to COH3, the new king of all team RTS !
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