The state of CoH2

Bear you realize 82mm prec strike got a nerf. Honestly guards nade is better IMHO. If they are clearing paks you have really really bad luck. And werfers don't need vet 1 to clear a zis.

It's not my point to say what kills what better and I am also aware that precision strike has been "nerfed", yet I still manage to get good wipes with it, what I am saying is that soviets have lots of tools that can be combined to wipe out smaller Ostheer squads/ support weapons.

And on maps like Semoskiy, precision strike is a great thing to have...

No but what you are doing is using an argument to justify what most players think is op by saying what they have is op and using that for justification. Further you are calling people who believe said unit is out of balance are fanboys. Fact is Panther has over performed or soviet at has been under performing for a very long time. This needs to be adjusted. And hopefully next patch it will. After all if the soviets lack their AI advantage Ost shouldn't be left with an AT advantage.

The Panther has been enjoying a lot if indirect buffs. SU85 adjustment, cost decrease, AT nade multi nerf vet armor boost and the RAM rework Etc. the only way to deal with it efficiently and punish its massive armor and hp having self was with stolen shreks.

No but what you are doing is using an argument to justify what most players think is op by saying what they have is op and using that for justification. Further you are calling people who believe said unit is out of balance are fanboys. Fact is Panther has over performed or soviet at has been under performing for a very long time. This needs to be adjusted. And hopefully next patch it will. After all if the soviets lack their AI advantage Ost shouldn't be left with an AT advantage.

The Panther has been enjoying a lot if indirect buffs. SU85 adjustment, cost decrease, AT nade multi nerf vet armor boost and the RAM rework Etc. the only way to deal with it efficiently and punish its massive armor and hp having self was with stolen shreks.

Well, if you are going to start putting words in my mouth, then I really do not want to discuss anything further. Nowhere was there talk about soviet fanboyism. I never said anything is OP, I suggested that players use the arsenal they have (on both sides). Also, I recall myself writing that adjustments need to be made.

Looking for a forum fight, ey?

Hello Folks;

Overall,(except conscripts) in term of power i think the factions are rather balanced.

The feeling of Germans superiority come from the fact that that the Germans are about 10% to 20% easier to play then the Soviets. The Soviets must use all theirs tools to win, but the Germans don't have to.

Conscripts AT-grenades improvements:

While the AT-grenade's range nerf is ok in itself, it made the conscripts completely useless versus heavier German's tanks when they were only minimally effective against it before. Just add a minimum effect to the AT-nades, that coupled with reducing the anti-infantry capability of the heavier tanks in the next patch should provide us with the balance needed.

Example : a minimum of 10% to speed or turret rotation or fire rate. It's just a small reward for such uneven fight.

Well, if you are going to start putting words in my mouth, then I really do not want to discuss anything further. Nowhere was there talk about soviet fanboyism. I never said anything is OP, I suggested that players use the arsenal they have (on both sides). Also, I recall myself writing that adjustments need to be made.

Looking for a forum fight, ey?

You are coming across that way. When you say how devastating something is and when informed it's been "nerfed" sure comes across as you implying its op. Basically your post comes across as a l2p remark. I can also post a lot of read between the lines comments and when called out on it and deny it as well.

My point is obvious I would think. The panther as a unit may be fine. But patch after patch the things that countered it were weakened which is why it's probably the most spammed unit in team games. It's literally an A move win unit that isn't punished by anything other than mines. Every other soviet thing you brought up as a problem or an issue exists on the German side in a more effective form barring the su85. But even that could be argued to be an inferior version of the panther.

I am hoping next patch T34s will perform as we'll against panthers as grens do against shocks. But of course I doubt relic will make tank battles skill based as they did with infantry.

Really so you are saying just build panthers and win...cmon now. That would mean no Soviets would win ever, since the panther can kill everything and not be stopped. I build panthers that die all the time, every game I build them almost. I guess Im building the wrong ones or something.You say its fine then imply it's unstoppable, lol what a curve ball.

Hello Folks;


The feeling of Germans superiority come from the fact that that the Germans are about 10% to 20% easier to play then the Soviets. The Soviets must use all theirs tools to win, but the Germans don't have to.

I would argue the reason they don't is because they can't afford to, replacing losses on smaller squads more frequently and munition drain makes it more difficult to stray from your original plan. Lest ye get overraneth

So after a hard day in the office one plays rather the german faction .

Really so you are saying just build panthers and win...cmon now. That would mean no Soviets would win ever, since the panther can kill everything and not be stopped. I build panthers that die all the time, every game I build them almost. I guess Im building the wrong ones or something.You say its fine then imply it's unstoppable, lol what a curve ball.

Your right it did come across that way. They aren't unstoppable just really hard to stop. More then they ought to be IMHO. If they didn't go into super tank mode at vet 2 and could be snared as easily as they used to be then it wouldn't be hard to take them down when they foolishly over extend them selves. The amount of effort to take them out with soviets current tools is disproportionate to their ease of use. The only real weakness is they are mediocre to infantry. But without infantry AT barring captured shreks you really can't take advantage of this fact. And with cache and opels that are common with this strat fuel isn't really a barrier to spam them.

I don't feel any tank should be able to go marauding into enemy lines that have plenty of ATGs and get away without support. Not even the feared IS2 can do this like the panther can. I prefer tiger spam to dealing with Panther spam. That doesn't pass the smell test to me.

You are coming across that way. When you say how devastating something is and when informed it's been "nerfed" sure comes across as you implying its op. Basically your post comes across as a l2p remark. I can also post a lot of read between the lines comments and when called out on it and deny it as well.

My point is obvious I would think. The panther as a unit may be fine. But patch after patch the things that countered it were weakened which is why it's probably the most spammed unit in team games. It's literally an A move win unit that isn't punished by anything other than mines. Every other soviet thing you brought up as a problem or an issue exists on the German side in a more effective form barring the su85. But even that could be argued to be an inferior version of the panther.

I am hoping next patch T34s will perform as we'll against panthers as grens do against shocks. But of course I doubt relic will make tank battles skill based as they did with infantry.

I say it's devastating because it is. No inbetween the lines. You may interpret my text as you like, but just take it as such. This is not a conspiracy, friend, I am not hiding a secret message in my opinion. The soviet things I have brought up are not problems, they are tools to achieve victory, just lots of people seem to not use them. I also play soviets, you know. You do not seem to understand how many squadwipes can be achieved with the precision strike. Even if it doesn't, it kills at least 2 members of the crew. A following Katyusha barrage will clean up the rest.

As for the Panther, I can follow what you are saying. In 1vs1 and 2vs2, I think it's rather balanced. Upwards, pretty much anything can be spammed.

Well I only play 1v1 and 2v2. 2v2 is where I see it as a problem. 1v1 there is no resource for it or another teammate to protect you from the tech gap.

I beat Panther spam all the time. But this is because I am middle of the road and people I usually face climbed the ladder through more inexperienced Soviet players that cant setup the majority of their pop cap and munitions for mines to counter it.

Even when I do beat the Panther spam it takes a ton off effort. More than what it should. If you know its coming it should be EASY to counter. As it stands I know its coming and it can still be a bitch to counter.

Thats an example of a unit that is easier to use than to counter. I dont think a single unit in COH2 should perform that way (German or Soviet)

And I am sure if we looked at Relics stats 81MM would get more kills than a Vet 1 82 just because of its turbo fire. I feel that those two units are balanced ONLY when the 82 is vet 1.

I play both factions too (but only Ost in 1v1) and never really have a problem with Vet 1 Mortors. I have taken two entity losses many times from it. And had 1 unit that was at half health get whipped since the nerf.

Conversly prenerf not a support weapon or Pak could be on the field as I would snipe every single one with the 82 (once racked up 96 kills in 1v1 with it) but its a far cry from that now.

Yeah, mortars are a pain since the patch. I have lost many squads, even on the move. I don't know if it's just bad luck or a broken game mechanic. My units are usually on the move to avoid getting hit, but at some point, the mortar just snipes them. I agree that the 81mm is super strong now, it's like a grenade spitting machine gun...

Back to the Panthers... whats your defintion of Pantherspam? I haven't really had problems with Panthers trying to flank as I usually always have guards to pin and mark vehicle in team games.

Yeah, mortars are a pain since the patch. I have lost many squads, even on the move. I don't know if it's just bad luck or a broken game mechanic. My units are usually on the move to avoid getting hit, but at some point, the mortar just snipes them. I agree that the 81mm is super strong now, it's like a grenade spitting machine gun...

Back to the Panthers... whats your defintion of Pantherspam? I haven't really had problems with Panthers trying to flank as I usually always have guards to pin and mark vehicle in team games.

Well the panther spam is really a strat I usually see it go like this:

Player 1 picks what ever doctrine and techs to T4 ASAP Tank 1-4 is usually a Panther or he may mix in a single T4 unit like a Werfer or a Brummbar.

Player 2 picks good old OPELS.

Usually a nice sizeable blob of Shrekd Pgrens mixed with Regular Pgrens.(This is to counter T34s so when they are ready to assault they cannot be rammed)

Player 2 abuses skill plane and Stuka to try to take out your Zis since you only have 5 seconds to move the gun.

Player 2 Spams Tigers.

Since they have usually 1+ Cache plus Opel depending on how aggressive our team is on taking them out they usually at the end of the game have floated 300 fuel. So the only barrier for entry is Manpower.

Map Control is largely irrelevant.

Then they get the nice size blob of Heavy armor and A move it at your defenses. In my case the hit my 10+ mines and get picked off by a wall of Zis plus SU85s.

But if I didnt expect this type of tactic it would always be successful. You pretty much need to dedicate most of your Pop cap to AT hard counters and Mines are required. Either your scripts will bounce AT nades off the ubermensch armor or they get pinned by the skill plane spam (Thanks Opels I love ya)

It more or less forces a campy style of game play where SU85s and Kats are all I end up with.

The same thing cannot be accomplished by P4 spam or any other armor Spam. Even Tiger Spam is weaker because they are so slow and easy to pick off with a well protected and microd SU85.

Panthers speed, durability, ease of availability (Thanks Opels), Ease or replacement (again Opels) lack of support infantry requirement (Skill Planes) and very large HP pool makes even a failed attempt relativiley unpunished.

Often failed assaults end in damaged Panthers that get vet and Dead Tigers.

Atleast its not this bad yet

http://youtu.be/6kqvhregTUQ?t=20s

Atleast its not this bad yet

http://youtu.be/6kqvhregTUQ?t=20s

*actual post-patch gameplay footage

you soviet whiners are going to crash coh2.org with all your cry posts. the game is actually closer to being balanced then ever. there is only a few tweaks to the infantry to make the early to mid fixed. the t34 is getting some love in the next patch so stop crying about the late game. is2 and isu are awesome. learn to use them.

but what does ost and sov balance matter at all? undoubtedly relics new expansion factions will be op and destroy the eastern front armies so that we all have to give up on the eastern front like they are. OP american heavy cav commander? check. OP jagdtiger to "balance" that commander? check. speaking of jagdtiger, how are you soviet whinegirls going to deal with that when you cant even deal with a shitty elephant?

you soviet whiners are going to crash coh2.org with all your cry posts. the game is actually closer to being balanced then ever. there is only a few tweaks to the infantry to make the early to mid fixed. the t34 is getting some love in the next patch so stop crying about the late game. is2 and isu are awesome. learn to use them.

Can you post your ladder profile please?

Can you post your ladder profile please?

im not giving out my steam profile on these forums. also dont start that bullshit "only elites should have a say."

im not giving out my steam profile on these forums. also dont start that bullshit "only elites should have a say."

Ohh, don't be so shy.

Here guys:
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198095880520

This is his profile. I treasure this link especially for occasions like this one.